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Hi everyone,
As you all know, Coffee (Dean) passed away a couple of years ago. I am Dean's ex-wife's husband and happen to have spent my career in tech. Over the years, I occasionally helped Dean with various tech issues.
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Over the past couple of weeks, I’ve been working to migrate the site to a free cloud compute instance so that Woodschick and Dirtdame no longer have to fund it. At the same time, I’ve updated the site to a current version of XenForo (the discussion software it runs on). The previous version was outdated and no longer supported.
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Thanks for your patience and support!
250-500cc Trials Tire - 1st Time
- Thread starter Jhunter
- Start date
Jhunter
Husqvarna
AA Class
Give us a ride report when you can.
I'm headed to the North Georgia Mountains for two days of single track riding. I'll let you guys know Monday how the Pirelli worked...
Sceep
Husqvarna
AA Class
my crew all run trials tires. 2 of us on IRC stickys and 2 on the pirelli's, all around 8-10 psi.
the IRC seems to have much better traction in loose rocky climbs, or solid rock. but the Pirelli's seem to be much more resilient. many punctures with the IRC's, None with the pirelli's. i will be switching to pirelli's once these IRC's wear out. I will also be going back to a knobby front, as the trials just washes out too much.
that Golden tyre looks good. might try that.
the IRC seems to have much better traction in loose rocky climbs, or solid rock. but the Pirelli's seem to be much more resilient. many punctures with the IRC's, None with the pirelli's. i will be switching to pirelli's once these IRC's wear out. I will also be going back to a knobby front, as the trials just washes out too much.
that Golden tyre looks good. might try that.
Ok folks, my first ride on the 19" vee rubber trials tire is complete, and it was a trip! Local knowledge trails of the technical variety in Oregon coastal range...5 hours of mostly drizzle in rocks, ruts, roots and almost nothing flat. Before the ride, some guy in the parking lot on an orange bike commented, "trials tire, that should be fun"
Let me tell you, he was spot on! The tire absolutely rocked it! Loose rock...smooth and grippy, roots...added traction, solid wet rock...wheelie time! Ruts...climb right out! Now for the caveats... I did not have deep mud or sand to contend with...or snow. Also, it raised the rear of my bike probably an inch at least and caused my gearing to be a bit high. I was running 13-47 and had to also buy a new chain so the tire wouldnt rub. Handling was definitely different, but I adapted quicky. I have never had the ability to loft the tire so easily or nail the steep loose rocky climbs like I did today...no problem, while six others in my group struggled on knobbies. Some complain about descending and skating the tire, but I had no issues. In this terrain, you have to use 90% front brake anyway, so it was a non issue. If you have to roost the corners, this is not your tire. If traction is not an issue for you, this is not your tire. I have read the debates, but I had to try it to really get it. This tire aint coming off any time soon!
Let me tell you, he was spot on! The tire absolutely rocked it! Loose rock...smooth and grippy, roots...added traction, solid wet rock...wheelie time! Ruts...climb right out! Now for the caveats... I did not have deep mud or sand to contend with...or snow. Also, it raised the rear of my bike probably an inch at least and caused my gearing to be a bit high. I was running 13-47 and had to also buy a new chain so the tire wouldnt rub. Handling was definitely different, but I adapted quicky. I have never had the ability to loft the tire so easily or nail the steep loose rocky climbs like I did today...no problem, while six others in my group struggled on knobbies. Some complain about descending and skating the tire, but I had no issues. In this terrain, you have to use 90% front brake anyway, so it was a non issue. If you have to roost the corners, this is not your tire. If traction is not an issue for you, this is not your tire. I have read the debates, but I had to try it to really get it. This tire aint coming off any time soon!
ptkatoomer
Husqvarna
Pro Class
I've seen guys running these out at the local desert, but I just can't believe they would work in the sand.......I'd think they'd just spin
. It'd be nice if I could afford two sets of wheels so I could swap out when I go between desert and single-track.
. It'd be nice if I could afford two sets of wheels so I could swap out when I go between desert and single-track.
Think it depends on the situation. I camped in Clear Creek just before it was closed years ago, and there was a sandy trail behind the camping area that was steep, but not that steep.I've seen guys running these out at the local desert, but I just can't believe they would work in the sand.......I'd think they'd just spin
Some other people camping there had knobbies, and they massively failed to go up the trail, while I slowly put putted past them no problem.
Trials tires definitely needs to be tried to see if it fits the situation of the rider/bike/terrain.
Very true. Some people love them for everything, but I personally think they are best when the going is slow. There's some things they are just great for, you'll find others that make you wish you had a knobby on.
I had one on during a trip to Moab in March. Sand is sand no matter how you look at it, you have to go fast to get on top of it, and it will never be planted feeling. The Dunlop 803 I had on spun quite a bit, and once on top, things didn't really track at all. I expected that though. All the rock out there is too much traction on a trials tire in my opinion, a knobby bites really well to it, so it was unnecessary other than I was trying to finish it off.
BadMotoWeazal
Husqvarna
Pro Class
I've been running a trials tire for well over 3 years now (I did try a MX 71 rear not so long ago, running only 6-7 psi, it worked well but once the edge is gone it is too). Trail riding & harescrambles, I can't find a better tire. Used to be just the Dunlop 803, but since Dunlop got there pricing too high I've been using the MT43. It works great in a wide range of terrain, but the grass tracks tend to look like a 1/4 flat track move. Mud & sand just mean you need to carry a little more momentum, but dirt, rocks & roots no problem. Slide braking turns is easy & once you figure out how they work in turns, it's just a technique change. They last forever too, went to my buddy's shop yesterday to put a fresh rear on, he tells me to get that tire groover over there & get to work on the old one. She's all grooved up & ready to grab a hold of everything for a little while longer. I'm running Tubliss in front & rear, MX 71 front with 6-7 psi & the MT-43 gets 5 psi..... D803 I ran 7-8 psi as it is a softer carcass than the Italian brand.
Grass??? no problem for the holeshot. Just throttle control, LHRB to trail brake a bit & get up straight & let it eat.
Too much traction sometime.... the throttle is your friend.
Grass??? no problem for the holeshot. Just throttle control, LHRB to trail brake a bit & get up straight & let it eat.
Too much traction sometime.... the throttle is your friend.
The pirelli MT 43 is a bias ply and the dunlop and many others are radial. The Bias seem much stronger / resilient but less traction than the radial ones. With the Bias play ones like the pirelli you need to run real low air pressure to get some traction.
there is nothing better traction and climbing wise than a good trails tire in the oregon coast range. I have been out climbed a few times by a rider not as good as me with a WR250 with rekluse and dunlop 803. Always pisses me off.
BadMotoWeazal
Husqvarna
Pro Class
See, I always learn something here.... For me the MT-43 was a DOT tire & with both the 803 & MT next to each other & off the rim. The MT was a lot stiffer in the sidewall.
For the record: the idea of a trials tire is to act like a marshmallow and conform to the terrain, which is part of why they work so well in certain conditions. One of the things that allow it to conform is that the actual 'trials' tire the trials people use is radial tire.
There was a video shown multiple times on TT by someone where is shows the edge of a rear trials tire going over a golf ball sitting on the ground, and instead of the golf ball squirting out, the tire 'molded' around the golf ball.
Obviously there are other tires that people call 'trials tire' that are bias and not radial, but my understanding is those really are not the ones people use in trials competition.
You will need to decide if any of that pertains to you and your bike/style/terrain. Just thought I'd give my 2 cents.
There was a video shown multiple times on TT by someone where is shows the edge of a rear trials tire going over a golf ball sitting on the ground, and instead of the golf ball squirting out, the tire 'molded' around the golf ball.
Obviously there are other tires that people call 'trials tire' that are bias and not radial, but my understanding is those really are not the ones people use in trials competition.
You will need to decide if any of that pertains to you and your bike/style/terrain. Just thought I'd give my 2 cents.
BadMotoWeazal
Husqvarna
Pro Class
I use my hands to demonstrate how the trials tire grips. I take one hand & make a fist (this is the ground), I use my other hand and cover my fist completely and squeeze hard (this is the tire). LOL
DTX915
Husqvarna
Pro Class
Going to run out and get a Vee Rubber VMR 140 or 300 from LDR racing the same guy who turned me on to the Vee trials tire. After a conversation with him I think this may be the tire I need. It is a knob pattern built with a trials compound.
Like the price at 75.00 its a good deal but if I do some paperwork and give feed back to them it is 65.00 so if it is as short lived as some say I can afford to burn a few. What I really need to do is get another rear wheel set up to swap back and forth like I do with my other bike with what tire is needed that day.
Like the price at 75.00 its a good deal but if I do some paperwork and give feed back to them it is 65.00 so if it is as short lived as some say I can afford to burn a few. What I really need to do is get another rear wheel set up to swap back and forth like I do with my other bike with what tire is needed that day.
I tried the Vee Rubber VMR 140 once and thought is was complete junk. Hard to mount, horrible traction and just garbage. Was free to me and I figured out why first ride and took it off. Sorry just how I felt about it.
lankydoug
Husqvarna
Pro Class
The soft sidewall true trials tires are best when run at very low psi. like 4-6. Most modern trials bikes run them tubeless. I ran a MT43 with the Tubliss set up at 6psi ant it worked great but not so good when I tried 8-10 psi. I know of some fast A riders that have tried the soft trials tires in harescrambles and tore all the tread/knobs of before the halfway point. Fast A riders on big bikes like 2t 250s and 300s and 4t 450s can make short work of a "true" trials tire. I've found the best of both worlds is to run a intermediate knobby with the Tubliss set up at about 5psi or less.
DTX915
Husqvarna
Pro Class
Got a pair of VMR 300. These are built wit a different compound than the 140 and at 125.00 otd I felt it was a good deal. Several guys I race with have them and love them.
Now about the Vee trials tire they sell. From what LDR says it has an extra ply unlike the other brands and also comes in 4.25 for the big bikes. This guy is involved in the development of Vee Rubber tires and has much to say about how they are built. From what I was told Vee trials tires get used more for trail work than trials riding so the company added an extra ply to add some stiffness to the side wall.
They are also working on a tire between the trials and the VMR, like the golden with a different pattern.
Now about the Vee trials tire they sell. From what LDR says it has an extra ply unlike the other brands and also comes in 4.25 for the big bikes. This guy is involved in the development of Vee Rubber tires and has much to say about how they are built. From what I was told Vee trials tires get used more for trail work than trials riding so the company added an extra ply to add some stiffness to the side wall.
They are also working on a tire between the trials and the VMR, like the golden with a different pattern.
Hope you did not take my comments the wrong way. My evaluation was harsh but I did not like them. This was a long time ago and maybe the wrong tire for my terrain, I dont know. Also tire are super subjective items. Run what works for you.
Interesting, is it still radial just tougher? that would be a cool combo I would think.
Exactly how I feel about them as well. I tend to not run them because I have torn them up several times and I'm not a fast A guy. Never had an issue with a MT43 but have with the soft radial ones. I want to run them but a bit scared. VERY hard to ride back on a flat trials tire. Buddy Jake has great luck with them and they last forever. On a 20 hp WRF250 and Jakes uber smooth riding style they work like a charm. On my TE450 or 2 stroke 250 not so much. Had reliability issues and that does not cut it on long ride days.