• Hi everyone,

    As you all know, Coffee (Dean) passed away a couple of years ago. I am Dean's ex-wife's husband and happen to have spent my career in tech. Over the years, I occasionally helped Dean with various tech issues.

    When he passed, I worked with his kids to gather the necessary credentials to keep this site running. Since then (and for however long they worked with Coffee), Woodschick and Dirtdame have been maintaining the site and covering the costs. Without their hard work and financial support, CafeHusky would have been lost.

    Over the past couple of weeks, I’ve been working to migrate the site to a free cloud compute instance so that Woodschick and Dirtdame no longer have to fund it. At the same time, I’ve updated the site to a current version of XenForo (the discussion software it runs on). The previous version was outdated and no longer supported.

    Unfortunately, the new software version doesn’t support importing the old site’s styles, so for now, you’ll see the XenForo default style. This may change over time.

    Coffee didn’t document the work he did on the site, so I’ve been digging through the old setup to understand how everything was running. There may still be things I’ve missed. One known issue is that email functionality is not yet working on the new site, but I hope to resolve this over time.

    Thanks for your patience and support!

Trivial battery thread

So are the Shorais. Technically, they will work down to those temperatures, but working and working at capacity are two different things. The very nature of lithium batteries is that they must be warm to operate properly. Most lithium motorcycle batteries recommend you let the ignition sit with your headlight on for several minutes if you're trying to start a bike below freezing. This is to get current running through the battery so that it will warm up. So presuming you are 100% charged when you shut your bike off, then you will probably be good. However, if you are running low, then using current BEFORE you try to start your battery is an exercise in futility.

I would definitely choose a EarthX over a Shorai. We ran LiFePo4 on several applications in Afghanistan, and the cold was always an issue, especially when the temp started falling below the 25F (-4C) range. So I would definitely shoot for a larger capacity than the stock battery to help with the potential cold start issues on a motorcycle. However, for the money spent, I could buy several AGM batteries and never worry about cold starts. I don't need to shed 8lbs that badly.
 
" If that were the case, pretty much any high-end smart phone would be useless. A Samsung Galaxy S3 comes standard with a 2100mAh battery. If it where to draw 2A the phone would be useless after 1 hour, and yet it lasts me about 24h on a charge."
I was referring to the CHARGING current, not the use current. We have a problem with Sally's Samsung Galaxy 2 and he tablet not charging from the car adaptor but it charged OK from the wall adapter.Went to an electronics place and the guy there said many phones and tablets charge at 2amps. The one we had was 1500mA ( ie 1.5A). Bought a 2 amp one and it charged, so it definitely draws more than 1.5A.
 
RidingDonkeys said:
I love the idea of a lithium battery, with one exception, the cold. I'm a year round rider, and I've seen lots of lithium batteries that have a tough time starting in the cold. AGM tends to perform much better below freezing.
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I was under the impression that lithium batteries would outperform comparable lead-acid batteries in cold weather - however the caveat here is that people choose lithium because a smaller lighter lithium battery can do the job of the stock lead acid battery, and in very cold weather a smaller lithium battery might underperform the standard battery. I do know that the manufacturers of "Spot" GPS trackers recommend only using lithium batteries in their devices because they will outperform alkaline and Ni-Mh batteries.
 
AGM is different from the oem lead acid batteries found in most motorcycles. AGM batteries have the same working temperature range as lithium batteries, but have a reduced charge capacity at colder temperatures. At -20 degrees the typical AGM battery is at 20% of total capacity where as the lithium is closer to 80%. That 20% is usually sufficient to start the motorcycle.
 
nev.. said:
I was under the impression that lithium batteries would outperform comparable lead-acid batteries in cold weather...
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It depends by what metric you are measuring. For purposes of this post, flooded lead acid isn't even an option. It is old tech and both these technologies make it obsolete for our chosen application.

Tinken is correct in that your standard AGM charge capacity is 20% at -20C versus 80% for the Lithium. However, charging is not what you're looking to do there in most cases. You are looking to discharge it, specifically by starting your motorcycle. This is where the AGM outperforms Lithium. AGMs will discharge much more efficiently in the cold, so much so that they even discharge faster with no/low load. Put three motorcycles up for a Yankee winter with three different batteries. One flooded lead acid, one AGM, and one LiFePo4. By two months into it, the flooded lead acid will be dead, the AGM will be getting close to dead, and the LiFePo4 will be just fine.

Lithium batteries don't discharge at full capacity until warmed internally. So a lithium battery rated at 200cca won't perform at 200cca in freezing temperatures UNTIL it is warmed up. At that point, the battery itself becomes warmer than the outside air, and will function just fine.

So how does this affect your choice in batteries?

If you are buying a LiFePo4 battery with the exact same specs as the stock battery (10ah, 180CCA), then you might have issues if you ride in cold weather, or more specifcally, start your bike in cold weather. Emphasis on the words "might have issues." It isn't a guarantee, and different people define problems different ways. Your bike will start, but you may have to warm up the battery before you can warm up the engine. Shorai recommends that you let the headlight burn for a few minute prior to firing the starter. The way around this is to take advantage of the decreased physical size and buy a LiFePo4 battery that has a greater capacity and CCA rating than the stock battery. Then it will fire better when cold, possibly eliminating the need for warming while giving you the ability to run more stuff.

If you are buying AGM, you won't have anything to worry about unless you are trying to charge your battery in extreme cold. Charging capacities start to drop significantly on a AGM battery around 32F/0C. This doesn't bother most people because they are only worried about starting their bike, not charging their battery. Once the bike is started, the battery warms, and charging goes back to nominal capacity. However, no "warming" of the battery should be necessary to start a motorcycle down to about -4F/-20C. AGMs will also be heavier and larger than LiFePo4 batteries for like capacities, however, they are much less expensive.

So unless you're trying desparately to save a few pounds or trying to squeeze significantly more capacity into a smaller space, the cost-benefit analysis for most people will favor AGM. However, if you're an electronics geek like me, you still find yourself strangely attracted to nice $200+ Lithium. Riding with heated goodies now has opened up a whole new temperature range for me. I've started my bike in single digits Farenhet twice in the last two weeks, and my AGM performed flawlessly with a one-touch start. However, when I got to work and started playing with my Lithium powered "work toys", I had some problems. So this has me personally leaning towards keeping a AGM in play for the Husky. The hacks will definitely get the Lithium treatement in the year to come though.
 
I have my Shorai on order. I ride year around in the cold so I'll keep you guys updated with my results.
 
nev.. said:
You need to check a map :). Where Greg lives is about the same distance from the equator as Cuba. They don't have cold weather there, even in what the rest of us would call winter.
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Admittedly, I didn't even pay attention to the Queensland part. I just knew he was from down under. Dang, I'd love to be living where he's at.
 
"Dang, I'd love to be living where he's at."

Not me. I like the cold. Couldn´t stand the heat in Oz. My two lithium batteries take a bit longer to fire up in the cold. But then they come on much stronger than traditional lead batteries. And I´ve had them for two years now.
 
The Shorai batter I ordered did not fit. I will post some pics. I will need to find a smaller Shorai to exchange for.
 
DID NOT FIT! Which battery did you order? The one I got for mine ( recommended by the Shorai guys and bigger capacity and cranking current than std) has enough room around it to put my bottle of fuses and a 12v accessory plug and still have room left over. Even with the extra foam sheets to cushion the battery.
 
Greg Jetnikoff said:
DID NOT FIT! Which battery did you order? The one I got for mine ( recommended by the Shorai guys and bigger capacity and cranking current than std) has enough room around it to put my bottle of fuses and a 12v accessory plug and still have room left over. Even with the extra foam sheets to cushion the battery.
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Model number LFX14L5-BS12. This model is made for the BMW F650GS - 1993-2007 Single. So one would assume this is the correct model for the TR650. Well it definitely is not. Which model did you use?? I will exchange for it.

Thank you
 
Scutler said:
Model number LFX14L5-BS12. This model is made for the BMW F650GS - 1993-2007 Single. So one would assume this is the correct model for the TR650. Well it definitely is not. Which model did you use?? I will exchange for it.

Thank you
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Like I said in an earlier post, I have a Shorai LFX18A1-BS12 in my Terra. Fits great and it's a little smaller than the stock BMW battery.
 
I got the Ballistic Battery 8 Cell EVO 2 Lithium (1lb 10oz...around 600 miles now i have 16200. I did it for weight and space.
Not one problem...never charged it yet. Did have bike in freezing temps in Utah/Colo late oct.... started every morning.

They are pricey $140 ish....the bike is a awesome all-rounder and deserve it.
My thoughts were that cheap BMW battery would fail me in backcountry one day.
 
I have a Shorai LFX14L2-BS12 installed in my Terra. Been working well even in sub 30 temps. Got to love the size and weight
 
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