Trivial battery thread

[reveille]

I ordered up a ballistic 8 cell today. Should have it Friday. It looks as though the Alien Motion balancing charger will work also, at a significant savings.

I apologize for not finding this post earlier and it looks like I am too late to warn you. I have extensive experience with the Ballistic batteries(8 cell EVO2). Unfortunately, it's all bad experience. Of all the lithium's out there, they seem to be the worst. Their warranty stinks as well. After 2 of those POS batteries I finally threw in the towel. Both batteries had major internal failures that had nothing to do with charging. They just flat out vibrated the internals loose and Ballistic expected me to pay $100 every few months to replace them. No thank you.

 

[run-it]

I apologize for not finding this post earlier and it looks like I am too late to warn you. I have extensive experience with the Ballistic batteries(8 cell EVO2). Unfortunately, it's all bad experience. Of all the lithium's out there, they seem to be the worst. Their warranty stinks as well. After 2 of those POS batteries I finally threw in the towel. Both batteries had major internal failures that had nothing to do with charging. They just flat out vibrated the internals loose and Ballistic expected me to pay $100 every few months to replace them. No thank you.

Sounds like the new fridge I bought last year was happy to get rid of it! What did you end up with & how is it working out?

 

[reveille]

Sounds like the new fridge I bought last year was happy to get rid of it! What did you end up with & how is it working out?

I went back to the OEM lead acid battery. IMO, the little bit of weight loss isn't worth being stuck on the trail like what the EVO2 did to me twice... Lithium batteries have a looooong way to go before they are deemed reliable to me. Ballistic has a prorated warranty and they jack up the MSRP so when you attempt to make a warranty claim, the cost to you exceeds what you actually paid retail. Great deal huh? I fell in love with the super light battery idea until I figured out the technology stinks. Ballistic claims their batteries are made in the USA but they only assemble them here. The cells are China...

 

[Tinken]

Nantista raced with the ballistic battery, used to swear by them until it failed on him. He uses Earthx now. I don't think it's the Battery's fault, but the lack of a battery management system.

 

[reveille]

Well Tinken, I know for a fact that my EVO's failed internally and had nothing to do with charging management. They rattled like a kids toy when I removed them and shook it. Nothing to do with how it was charged and all to do with cheap construction. If it was just 1 that did that I wouldn't be so negative but I had 2 back to back in totally different bikes do the exact thing. Rant over. LOL

 

[mag00]

Well Tinken, I know for a fact that my EVO's failed internally and had nothing to do with charging management. They rattled like a kids toy when I removed them and shook it. Nothing to do with how it was charged and all to do with cheap construction. If it was just 1 that did that I wouldn't be so negative but I had 2 back to back in totally different bikes do the exact thing. Rant over. LOL

How long ago was this? What bike were you using and what was the major type of terrain?

I do not race this thing, and with the added knowledge can build a better vibration mount.

The only battery I ever had issue with was a walmart battery in my van. They made it right with me.

I have a 15 year old optima blue top that still works great. My oddysee was one great battery. I think for my usage, this ballistic will work well. I have read of problems with the Earthx, but have no first hand knowledge. I have heard of shorai the early years burning, but they got that fixed. It's new tech, and I have even heard of serious problems with theTR650, and there is one sitting at my dealer that Husky had to buy back from the unsatisfied customer.

But as a cautionary note, I may purchase one of the small alien motion ones to carry as a spare. It would be enough to fire the fuel pump and ignition as I push start to get home. Might be a good idea for any adventure rider. 2 x 2 x 3 and holds a charge, and light weight, packed in with other gear to protect it. Hmm food for thought anyway, until these batteries prove themselves or go down as a big failure.

 

[reveille]

I tried padding with foam after the first one self destructed. That one was in a DR650 and the second was in my 2012 TE310 same result. They just suck nuff said

 

[mag00]

I tried padding with foam after the first one self destructed. That one was in a DR650 and the second was in my 2012 TE310 same result. They just suck nuff said

I appreciate the heads up and will take some proactive measures for that possibility.

 

[huskylove]

^ Exactly the feedback I would figure...I would like to "play" with one of the Earth x batteries....See what all the fuss is about . You guys with the tr650's have a hugeee battery. Likely worth the weight loss to use lithium.

 

[organ donor]

It´s not just the weight loss (although that´s the most important point). There are also a few other lithium advantages that are quite important too: they keep the charge much better and they accept a charge much faster. Although they´re just as susceptible to to cold weather, they pick up quickly after the key´s been turned for a short while.

 

[Scutler]

So many strong opinions here. Are we talking about batteries or what type of oil to use?

For what it's worth the Shorai I have has been working great despite cold weather. Worked just as well as the stock battery in the teens.

 

[run-it]

I went back to the OEM lead acid battery. IMO, the little bit of weight loss isn't worth being stuck on the trail like what the EVO2 did to me twice... Lithium batteries have a looooong way to go before they are deemed reliable to me. Ballistic has a prorated warranty and they jack up the MSRP so when you attempt to make a warranty claim, the cost to you exceeds what you actually paid retail. Great deal huh? I fell in love with the super light battery idea until I figured out the technology stinks. Ballistic claims their batteries are made in the USA but they only assemble them here. The cells are China...

I lAPPRECIATE people's real world experiences! BUT...it might be inaccurate to conclude THE TECHNOLOGY stinks considering that experience is limited to the BALLISTIC EVO2 battery, no?

So many strong opinions here. Are we talking about batteries or what type of oil to use?

For what it's worth the Shorai I have has been working great despite cold weather. Worked just as well as the stock battery in the teens.

BOTH comments good to know!

 

[reveille]

Yes you are correct. The lifepo cells that Ballistic buys from China and cobbles together are crap. This I have learned all too well. Others might have better luck with different companies. FWIW when the battery worked it seemed to perform good in temps above 45 f but not so good if it was colder. I would need to turn the key and let the headlight warm the battery for a few minutes before it had enough amperage to turn the starter over. Not ideal but not a deal breaker unless you are running from Jason Vorhees or worse. LOL

 

[mag00]

Interesting, very interesting. I have been looking around and thinking of making my own batteries and in the discovery process ran across this vid on chargers. $22 for a clone lifepo charger. What do you think?

 

[organ donor]

Yes, that LiPro charger´s the one I tried. But it does need a battery that has the same multi-pronged socket (which most don´t have). AND ... the instructions are definitely only for the already initiated!

I´d definitely go with a battery that has its own internal `balancer´.

 

[Lowrider1963]

I used a Odyssey for few years now the thing with this battery is gives more amps on the turn of the key when you need it, but you will need to keep a trickle charge going when not using the bike for long periods,
Also great for touring as you can run all your accessories with out taking it out of your battery.

 

[RidingDonkeys]

Yes you are correct. The lifepo cells that Ballistic buys from China and cobbles together are crap. This I have learned all too well. Others might have better luck with different companies. FWIW when the battery worked it seemed to perform good in temps above 45 f but not so good if it was colder. I would need to turn the key and let the headlight warm the battery for a few minutes before it had enough amperage to turn the starter over. Not ideal but not a deal breaker unless you are running from Jason Vorhees or worse. LOL

This is my experience with Ballistic.
http://www.advrider.com/forums/showpost.php?p=18401782&postcount=421

 

[RidingDonkeys]

I just ordered a Deltran 300 for the Ural.

Here is what came in the box:

The terminals were very high quality, not cheap lead ones bound for corrosion like I get with a Yuasa. Also, it comes with three stacks of pre-cut foam inserts with "sticky" on them for padding the battery. Kudos for not making me go find and cut foam!

So why am i posting this here? Well, I decided to see if the 300 would fit the Husky. Unfortunately it won't work, but it could if you wanted to do some cutting. The Deltran 300 is 1/2 inch wider than the stock battery. The battery tray has cheap plastic sides that prevent you from installing any battery wider than the stock one. They could be easily cut for someone who wanted to install a larger battery. However lithium batteries with significantly more power than the stock battery are readily available in sizes smaller than the stock battery.

Stock battery dimensions:
Length: 5.875" (149mm)
Width: 3.375" (86mm)
Height: 5.125" (130mm)

So if going to an aftermarket battery, you'll need to find one this size or smaller.

Now for the tech specs of the original battery.
CCA: 180
Ah: 10

This is a small battery.

I'm impressed with the quality and construction of the Deltran (Battery Tender) LiFePo4 battery. I have been a staunch skeptic of the LiFePo4 batteries in motorcycle applications mostly due to schotty construction and cold weather start issues. However, this battery caught my attention, especially coming from a reputable manufacturer. The two sets of terminals makes for endless install possibilities too.

So the bottom line is don't buy the Deltran 300. Buy the Deltran 240 instead and take advantage of the higher power ratings and smaller case. The 240 comes in smaller than the stock battery at 5.27" (134mm) length x 2.55” (65mm) width x 3.62” (92mm) and has 240 CCA and 10-14Ah. It should be a nice fit, and will be my next battery for the Husky.

 

[mag00]

The lithium-ion battery's explosive tendencies are the result of a process known as thermal runaway. It's essentially an energetic positive feedback loop whereby increasing temperature causes the system to get hotter, which increases the temperature, which causes the system to get even hotter, and so on. Thermal runaway is surprisingly common and can be found in a wide array of physical and chemical processes, from curing concrete (which releases heat) to exploding stars (supernovae are the result of TR on a cosmic scale).
Li-ion batteries can suffer thermal runaway for a variety of reasons. Much like bridging a 9V battery's terminals with a coin, short circuits caused by a tear in the membrane that separates the negative and positive poles of a Li-ion battery will often cause a thermal meltdown. Ambient temperatures exceeding 60 degrees C, repeated overcharging, or unauthorized modifications to the case have all also been reported as the source of battery fires.
http://gizmodo.com/5985410/why-smartphone-laptop-and-airplane-batteries-explode

I'm not really worried. Older bikes with charging issues, I would definitely run an Odyssey battery.

 

[RidingDonkeys]

The lithium-ion battery's explosive tendencies are the result of a process known as thermal runaway. It's essentially an energetic positive feedback loop whereby increasing temperature causes the system to get hotter, which increases the temperature, which causes the system to get even hotter, and so on. Thermal runaway is surprisingly common and can be found in a wide array of physical and chemical processes, from curing concrete (which releases heat) to exploding stars (supernovae are the result of TR on a cosmic scale).
Li-ion batteries can suffer thermal runaway for a variety of reasons. Much like bridging a 9V battery's terminals with a coin, short circuits caused by a tear in the membrane that separates the negative and positive poles of a Li-ion battery will often cause a thermal meltdown. Ambient temperatures exceeding 60 degrees C, repeated overcharging, or unauthorized modifications to the case have all also been reported as the source of battery fires.
http://gizmodo.com/5985410/why-smartphone-laptop-and-airplane-batteries-explode

I'm not really worried. Older bikes with charging issues, I would definitely run an Odyssey battery.

Yes, this is true for Lithium Ion. However, Ballistic Batteries are LiFePo4, not Lithium Ion (LiCoO2). LiFePo4 will not suffer from thermal runaway. The chemistry behind it specifically resists runaway. However, the Ballistic cells are known to be cheap, and susceptible to explosion due to overcharging. The problem with cheap cells is that 14.4v should be legit for a good cell, but may actually be doing damage to a cheap cell made with low tolerances. Overcharging is really your only source for a LiFePo4 explosion, and even then only on cheap cells or GROSSLY negligent overcharging. I think this accounts for most of the explosions we've seen.