Water in swingarm

[isldtime]

Yep, mine was dry too but also I don't use a pressure washer even if I do clean it too much.

 

[Nick Tunbridge]

Drilled 2, 3 mm holes a litre of water came out - sprayed wd40 and greased the adjusters hopefully now sorted- thanks for the advice

 

[engineerk9]

Or go this way: $5 Ebay reservoir with straight outlet...new, straight piece of hose....cap of reservoir sits neatly between the frame-rails and can't go anywhere.

I did this mod, plus changing to best quality synthetic brake fluid

 

[glitch_oz]

....plus changing to best quality synthetic brake fluid

...which will turn black again within a month

Tried BelRay, Motul, Nulon, Penrite, Castrol, Valvoline Racing...will give Papa Guiseppe's Extra Virgin Olive Oil a run next time , methinks.
Given up on changing the stoopid juice every 300k's and having 3 liters of assorted,open brake fluid containers on the shelf now (slaps head) that will all finish in the bin, arghhh.
But the cap of that reservoir STAYS ON, no worriers on that score.
Ahh, that's life...

 

[engineerk9]

...which will turn black again within a month

Tried BelRay, Motul, Nulon, Penrite, Castrol, Valvoline Racing...will give Papa Guiseppe's Extra Virgin Olive Oil a run next time , methinks.
Given up on changing the stoopid juice every 300k's and having 3 liters of assorted,open brake fluid containers on the shelf now (slaps head) that will all finish in the bin, arghhh.
But the cap of that reservoir STAYS ON, no worriers on that score.
Ahh, that's life...

When I first took delivery both front & back brake fluids were almost black

I immediately changed to synthetic brake fluid, flushing the system out, several times

After 22,000+klms the brake fluid still appears clear as

The "black" colouration could possibly come from ordinary motor oil being used, which has affected the rubber seals

 

[Mark_H]

...which will turn black again within a month

Tried BelRay, Motul, Nulon, Penrite, Castrol, Valvoline Racing...will give Papa Guiseppe's Extra Virgin Olive Oil a run next time , methinks.
Given up on changing the stoopid juice every 300k's and having 3 liters of assorted,open brake fluid containers on the shelf now (slaps head) that will all finish in the bin, arghhh.
But the cap of that reservoir STAYS ON, no worriers on that score.
Ahh, that's life...

OK so what is the issue with the Brake Fluid in the reservoir turning black, which incidentally is a reaction to sunlight and nothing else??

The colouring has nothing to do with the fluid properties which in turn does not affect the quality or ability of the fluid to do its job.
Furthermore, the fluid that you see is only the reservoir, it is not actually the fluid that is doing the work as that remains in the piston, pipe and calipers.
As brake pads wear the fluid in the reservoir does enter the system and become used, but only in very small amounts.

So long as the fluid remains sealed in the reservoir it will not absorb water and lose its properties, and the colouration has little or no effect.

My Nuda 900R has a fairly large plastic reservoir for the front brake and this is exposed to sunlight which has turned the fluid black very quickly, also on my 650 the fluid in the rear reservoir has been black for about a year, but the brakes have not been affected at all, therefore I see no problem.



900R turning dark very quickly, but no change in braking ability, therefore no change in fluid.

 

[nev..]

After 22,000+klms the brake fluid still appears clear as

I changed my brake fluid about 18000km ago and it too has remained the lovely clear/non-black colour that I have experienced in every other bike I have owned in the past 25 years. I have also noted that the fluid turning black seems to be a BMW trait.

 

[spiderman]

Well this is all very interesting and i would like to get to the bottom if it. Does Mark_H have the right idea that the fluid turns dark simply because of the translucent reservoir and it doesn't really affect the quality of the fluid? Other opinions welcome.

 

[Geeza]

On my Strada with the original fluid I found that rubber in the reservoir caps was breaking down, finger would go black if you rubbed the seal - did this contribute to the black colour - don't know? Have changed my fluid front and rear to Dot 5.1 and the fluid is still clear after 8,000k and the rubber is not breaking down. Just my two bob's worth

 

[engineerk9]

On my Strada with the original fluid I found that rubber in the reservoir caps was breaking down, finger would go black if you rubbed the seal - did this contribute to the black colour - don't know? Have changed my fluid front and rear to Dot 5.1 and the fluid is still clear after 8,000k and the rubber is not breaking down. Just my two bob's worth

That was my fear when I first purchased my TR, that they'd used the wrong fluid in front & rear brakes - I immediately drained & cleaned everything - a good qualty synthetic has bot discoloured in the 3 years & 22,000klms

 

[Mark_H]

Well this is all very interesting and i would like to get to the bottom if it. Does Mark_H have the right idea that the fluid turns dark simply because of the translucent reservoir and it doesn't really affect the quality of the fluid? Other opinions welcome.

KTM Australia had several warranty complaints on the Brake Fluid turning black with owners concerned that the properties were being diminished. They carried out tests and concluded it was a direct result of UV radiation and did not in any way affect the braking capabilities of the system.
Just Google - KTM Brake fluid turning black

 

[glitch_oz]

KTM Australia had several warranty complaints on the Brake Fluid turning black with owners concerned that the properties were being diminished. They carried out tests and concluded it was a direct result of UV radiation and did not in any way affect the braking capabilities of the system.
Just Google - KTM Brake fluid turning black

Sorry mate...but I still don't get it.
Using EXACTLY the same brake fluid (same boittle****************************************) on the V-Strom and KLR and 3 months later those 2 bikes are clear as water while the TR's is black.
I don't care what KTM says...something's not quite right when all bikes are supposed to run the same Dot4 juice!!

Agree, wouldn't use Dot 5 or 5.1 as that could spell trouble down the line.

 

[Mark_H]

You and KTM (Keep Trying Mate) are correct.. But over the years in wrenching I have changed many a cars braking fluids. And it always comes out black or dirty more to the point. Where there is no sunlight, just moisture.
Its gets in from the seals, joints, hoses , seams and it just gets in.

This is because DOT fluids are poly-glycol based. Glycol fluids are hygroscopic, meaning they will immediately upon breaking the containers foil seal start absorbing moisture from the atmosphere.
When the fluid gets to approx 3% contaminated its starts going black or dirty but it will function adequately or near new. At 8% it's time for a fluid change, this normally takes about 2 years.
Or risk a serious drop in boiling point.

Change at 12 to 18 months. Pending riding conditions, pressure washing etc.

Notes: (for newbies)
Try Valvoline SP DOT4 which is blue and won't go brown from sunlight.
DOT5.1 may be too corrosive or caustic.
Buy only as much as you need.
Discard leftovers after 2 months.
Dangerous to your health and be anal about clean up also discarding rags.

Correct, and I fully agree that changing at 12-18 months is the safest way to go. I was just trying to show that those guys who have experienced the fluid colour change within a short period of time need not be so worried about the loss of the fluid properties or braking ability.

Incidentally, Why did you buy a second lemon?

I do not (yet) consider that I bought have a second lemon, the Nuda 900R is a totally different beast to the TR650. It has been acclaimed worldwide to be an excellent bike and possibly the best in its class.
Ok it does have a few design faults, similar to the TR650 but just the same as all new bikes seem to have.
I am convinced that the crappy running and lean issues of the TR650, which are its main faults, are purely to do with the bike being made to meet the stringent US (California) Emissions regulations - Similar issues are experienced with BMW and KTM singles also meeting the US standards.

In their wisdom, when re-designing and tuning the original BMW 800 twin engine for the Nuda, BMW/Husqvarna decided to forego the US and its emission regulations and (thank god) the bike was not made for sale in USA.
The Nuda was, however, designed to meet other regulations with a trick valve assembly in the exhaust that cuts off noise and flow when it is being tested. Similar to Volkswagen style software, the bike 'knows'when it is being tested and closes off the valve to reduce the noise level.
Needless to say the entire stock exhaust of my Nuda including the trick valve, cat etc is in the store room and a full lightweight GPR System fitted in its place.
Apart from that, my Nuda 900R is pretty much stock and if it does turn out to be another lemon, it is a wild one!

 

[engineerk9]

Correct, and I fully agree that changing at 12-18 months is the safest way to go. I was just trying to show that those guys who have experienced the fluid colour change within a short period of time need not be so worried about the loss of the fluid properties or braking ability.



I do not (yet) consider that I bought have a second lemon, the Nuda 900R is a totally different beast to the TR650. It has been acclaimed worldwide to be an excellent bike and possibly the best in its class.
Ok it does have a few design faults, similar to the TR650 but just the same as all new bikes seem to have.
I am convinced that the crappy running and lean issues of the TR650, which are its main faults, are purely to do with the bike being made to meet the stringent US (California) Emissions regulations - Similar issues are experienced with BMW and KTM singles also meeting the US standards.

In their wisdom, when re-designing and tuning the original BMW 800 twin engine for the Nuda, BMW/Husqvarna decided to forego the US and its emission regulations and (thank god) the bike was not made for sale in USA.
The Nuda was, however, designed to meet other regulations with a trick valve assembly in the exhaust that cuts off noise and flow when it is being tested. Similar to Volkswagen style software, the bike 'knows'when it is being tested and closes off the valve to reduce the noise level.
Needless to say the entire stock exhaust of my Nuda including the trick valve, cat etc is in the store room and a full lightweight GPR System fitted in its place.
Apart from that, my Nuda 900R is pretty much stock and if it does turn out to be another lemon, it is a wild one!

I'm sad that I didn't purchase a Nuda, was a choice sell my ZRX1100 & buy the Nuda or not

So I purchased the TR instead so that I could undertake more adventurous rides

 

[gullywasher]

I immediately changed to synthetic brake fluid, flushing the system out, several times

The brake fluids compatible with our bikes are glycol-based and therefore synthetic (rated as DOT 4 and DOT 5.1 in the US). What do you mean by "synthetic" brake fluid?

 

[engineerk9]

The brake fluids compatible with our bikes are glycol-based and therefore synthetic (rated as DOT 4 and DOT 5.1 in the US). What do you mean by "synthetic" brake fluid?

There are genuine synthetic brake fluids available in Australia that may not be available in the USA

 

[Mark_H]

There are genuine synthetic brake fluids available in Australia that may not be available in the USA

Is Genuine Synthetic Fluid any different to other synthetic fluids - I think not.
This tells me all I need to know - https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Brake_fluid

 

[nwrider1]

I think this thread has gone off track. I just drilled 1/8 in. holes just forward of the axle and it was dry. my Terra is a 2014 model that does have factory holes at the swingarm pivot. I also sealed the shock mud falp holes right after I bought it.

 

[drzcharlie]

Is a mud falp any thing like a mud flap?

 

[shawbagga]

Yeah it's the euro version