DIY revalve of TC forks?

I got to try out my forks this weekend and they feel much better now. Small rocks and roots are not even noticeable and the larger stuff is soaked up with a lot less impact on me. I didn’t get any arm pump and I could carry more speed on rocky trails. It is definitely a big improvement. The bike would stay level in G-out type situations, not dive on steep downhills, and it still soaked up a jump landing good enough. So I don’t think I need to firm them up. Now the shock feels a little harsh. This just shows how good the forks are because I have never even though about the shock on any of my Huskies as the stock Sachs valving always seemed good in comparison to the forks.

They work so well I am not sure I want to mess with them further but maybe there is still room for improvement. At first it felt like the front end did not stick right after taking a hit from medium sized rocks. I backed off the rebound a few clicks and I think the problem is gone. Maybe the rebound stack could use some changes but I have a really hard time detecting if I need more or less rebound and even a harder time knowing if I need high or low speed adjustments.

It does feel like the front end is riding a little low now. Would the valving changes do that? I don’t think they were packing. When I was in the forks I changed the preload from 7mm to 2mm. I think this might be the problem but I do not know it 5mm of preload would be that noticeable? I also have my forks raised two lines in the clamps so I might just try dropping them flush first. I tried backing off the high speed compression on the shock yesterday but I did not notice it leveling out the bike any. The bike does handle sharp turns better now though as it is easier to get the front compressed. I may just be used to a more raked out setup.

When jumping off mounds and such the bike wants to fly nose high. I have adjusted to this by just getting further forward so I don’t know it this is anything to worry about.

Overall I am real happy with the changes. Thanks for all the help.

Hey, that's great to hear. I'm glad you liked it.

To answer your questions;

Back 5mm off the preload probalbe has a lot to do with the rebound and the front end riding a little low. Moreso than the valving change is this case, but the valving will let it run a little lower, but most don't notice it as being bad and they like the way it settles into the turns better.

I'd suggest playing with your preload and you clickers for now and see what you come up with. When someone gets this close to really liking the valving I like to see them try a few tuning things before making more valving adjustments.

"Tuning things" being clickers, preload, oil levels and such.

Funny thing is the shock feeling a little spikey is the most common thing I hear after I set somebody up like this. But, I can fix that when you're ready to go in there.

Good info NWr .... I need some more shims and maybe another compression valve ...

yep ... my rear end does not take sharp hits very well ... I just do not have the gas 'on' at certain places on the trail or track in an effort to keep the rear end from kicking up too high off the ground ....

You also need to get something to measure the thickness. We are very elementary with your setting since we don't even know how thick the shims are.

Ok ... I'll also look for local device to measure the thickness of the shims in the near future ...

I just found this nice place and:

I was asked if I could help a friend's Marzocchi Shivers 50mm-TC,which came from 2009 Beta 450 Factory enduro...Damn,those things are very light! That guy has complains about HS deflections and stones/roots compatibility issues. SO I took it apart and:

Rod 12mm, BV and MV pistons 26mm,
MV stack (8mm ID),float 0.6:
(2) 22x.10
21x.10
19x.10
13x.10
11x.10
13x.10
18x.10
22x.15
12x.15-spring shim-a bit like Wave shims in TTX


REB (8mm ID)
15x.10
(2) 22x.10
13x.10
(2) 22x.10
18x.10
14x.10
12x.15
11x2.5mm
nut 6mm

BV (8mmID)
22x.10
12x.10
(5) 22x.10
22x.15
20x.15
(2) 11x.20

Both pistons look like KTM MV pistons_and it has no MV Comp. spring-the last shim is wavy as to work as a spring

I need some base line to start with? thank you!

I want to revive this old thread and get some advice for the next change. the forks are much better then they were but after getting used to them I still think they are a bit more hacky then they need to be for my speed. I want to soften them up some more and try to get them to float through the trail trash better. MOTOHEAD was a big help with my first changes so I hope you are still out there.

For reference here is what I started with and what I changed. What would I do to soften it up some more?

Base valve Original:
12x.1
22x.1 (8)
21x.15
20x.1
19x .11
18x .1
17x .11
16x.15
15x 1.5
14x.2
13x.3
12x.2

Base:new
22x.1 x2
17x .11
22x .1 x3
20
12
21x .15
19x .1
18
16x.15
15
14x .2
13x .3

MV Original
22x.15,
22x.15,
13x.2,
20x.15,
19x.15,
17x.15,
22x.31

MV:new
22x .15 x2
13x .2
20x .15
19
17
12x .2 ( From Base stack )
22x .31


The rebound was not modified.

How about this:
MV:new
22x .15
13x .2
20x .15
19
17
22x .31

Base:new
22x.1 x2
17x .11
22x .1 x3
19x .11
12
22x .1
20x .1
18
16x.15
14x .2
12x .2

Thanks.

The forks are much better then they were stock but they are still more harsh then my friends stock YZ250, which seems a bit much for woods riding.

Should I do anything with the stock rebound? It is 11x2.5, 15x.1, 17x.11, 19x.1, 21x.1, 21x.1, 21x.1

I have a hard time determining if I need to mess with rebound so I guess I am not real good at giving you input. Sometimes the front end wants to not stick to the ground in rocks and roots but I think that is more compression related but I have a hard time telling if it could be too slow rebound. Do you have any advice for determining if the rebound is too slow?

Thanks again!

I'd work with the clickers on the rebound and try and see if you can figure out what you want. Most of the time you can get it from the clickers. Try going out a few clicks and see if that helps.

I got the shims moved around. Should this soften things up just a little or a lot? Looking at the changes I did not see how it would make them a lot softer but then again I do not know much about this subject.

I did notice that on one leg the 21x .15 on the base valve was dented in a spot from the 12mm shim. Is this an unusual thing to happen? I also discovered that one of my rebound stacks had two 15mm shims instead of one. I just removed the extra one. I assumed this is not going to make much of a difference.

Anyway if I can get them bled and get out on the bike this weekend I will let you know how they worked.

Thanks for the help again.

No, it's not drastic, but I want to get a better feel for what you're after.

I should know soon enough. They have been working well since the first changes and last ride was the first time since then that I got a lot of arm pump. Some of that is probably due to motor changes I have done making the bike yank a lot harder on the bottom.

But it does seem like they were more plush when I made the first changes you suggested. I am not sure if that is just because they were so bad before or because the performance deteriorated over time. There was that one dented shim but I am not srue it make any difference? I'm also not positive that they do not just flex and bind on big hits and no amount of shim mods will totally fix it.

These are my first duel chambers and I thought the idea was that they keep the oil doing the damping cleaner. I swear the oil in my outers was a lot better looking then what came out of the damper. I think they will need to change the oil a little more often. Or maybe now that damper is all broken in it will not create so much crud?

I'm still using the straight stack and doing OK with it .. It's probably a little to stiff for the trails at higher speeds but on the track I'm not bottoming any currently ... I hit some small whoops section the other day AOK and the bike turns very well ... I did back off the preload and remove one of the largest shims off the top of the stack ...

I think the stock stack probalby would work OK for MX. I remember they would take a big landing very well. But for the woods they are just harsh, at least at my slow speed. We just have a whole lot of roots and rocks. If I go fast enough they will smooth them out but I have to be flying which is hard on 6 inch wide trail. But then we also have a lot off loose baby head rocks and they tend to move before the forks will which tends to make the front end step out. There are also a lot of big root lenges in climbs and if the forks are plush they just soak them up but if stiff they push me off the pegs and make the front end fly skywards.

Basically they need to stick to the ground and not beat me to death on the slow speed rough stuff but still not cause me to lose control if I hit something big and high speed and not dive too much on steep downhills. They seem to be a decent compromise after the changes MOTOHEAD suggested the first time but I want to smooth them out a little more.

Then I get to move to the shock.

I open my valves up all the way and then close them a couple turns to get it soft but as you said, its still a little stiff at slow speed and I get some slightly harsh hit occasionally at higher speeds .. I get that baby head stuff too I think when I ride in died up creek beds as it seems the forks really give me a lot of feed back at that low low speed over this terrain ...Maybe I can get me some shims some day and try what you have ..

On the shock, I was riding my gf the other day on back and noticed how smooth it was so I just opened the HS and compression to the upper levels ... feels OK on the trail but not the track ... The track just has to have stiffness over the jumps and the jump faces ... you can get some weird face take-off feelings with too soft a suspension ..

Not sure what to make of the dented shim, but I'd throw it out and replace it.

You could also just pull the top 3 shims from the base stack and see how you like that.

Base:
22x .1 x3
19x .11
12
22x .1
20x .1
18
16x.15
14x .2
12x .2

I finally got a chance to test my forks. They are very good. The action is more plush and I did not detect any downsides like wallowing or blowing through the stroke.

thanks

Which stack did you use?

This one

How about this:
MV:new
22x .15
13x .2
20x .15
19
17
22x .31

Base:new
22x.1 x2
17x .11
22x .1 x3
19x .11
12
22x .1
20x .1
18
16x.15
14x .2
12x .2

I thought about going full on trail bike squishy but think that might have some downsides.
It is firm enough now that I still get some feedback from the terrain and it can take a hit but at the same time it soaks up the small stuff well. The front sticks to the ground a lot better in loose baby head sized rocks now. I have not had any 'A' riders try my bike afterwards but I think it will hold up to an increased pace. It does not do anything bad at my speed in really rough terrain. I think this stack is really a good one to smooth out trail junk, keep the tire on the ground, and still handle aggressive riding. If anyone else is playing with their stacks I would recommend this as a starting point.