• 4 Stroke Husqvarna Motorcycles Made In Italy - About 1989 to 2014
     TE = 4st Enduro & TC = 4st Cross

  • Hi everyone,

    As you all know, Coffee (Dean) passed away a couple of years ago. I am Dean's ex-wife's husband and happen to have spent my career in tech. Over the years, I occasionally helped Dean with various tech issues.

    When he passed, I worked with his kids to gather the necessary credentials to keep this site running. Since then (and for however long they worked with Coffee), Woodschick and Dirtdame have been maintaining the site and covering the costs. Without their hard work and financial support, CafeHusky would have been lost.

    Over the past couple of weeks, I’ve been working to migrate the site to a free cloud compute instance so that Woodschick and Dirtdame no longer have to fund it. At the same time, I’ve updated the site to a current version of XenForo (the discussion software it runs on). The previous version was outdated and no longer supported.

    Unfortunately, the new software version doesn’t support importing the old site’s styles, so for now, you’ll see the XenForo default style. This may change over time.

    Coffee didn’t document the work he did on the site, so I’ve been digging through the old setup to understand how everything was running. There may still be things I’ve missed. One known issue is that email functionality is not yet working on the new site, but I hope to resolve this over time.

    Thanks for your patience and support!

2011 TE449 Running well with factory EFI system - finally

I personally like the run on as it makes it feel more 2 stroke like as I tend to not use or like engine braking. Years ago I entertained the idea of putting a slipper clutch in a different 4 stroke for off road riding to get rid of the engine braking. I wish I knew a way to program the ECU for more of that.

As for the butterfly removal I think I'll wait for a few more reports and do it. Sounds like it makes a lot of sense.
 
Motosportz said:
I personally like the run on as it makes it feel more 2 stroke like as I tend to not use or like engine braking. Years ago I entertained the idea of putting a slipper clutch in a different 4 stroke for off road riding to get rid of the engine braking. I wish I knew a way to program the ECU for more of that.

As for the butterfly removal I think I'll wait for a few more reports and do it. Sounds like it makes a lot of sense.
Click to expand...


My own TE never really settled on either providing engine braking, or not. It was inconsistent, so you could not ride accordingly.

I.E. if it ALWAYS engine braked, you could be a bit lazier with the rear brake, if it ALWAYS ran-on like a two-smoker you'd get onto the rear brake earlier.

Mine could never make up it's mind.....I've made that decision for it. Ha ha. (Having normal 450cc engine braking is a big plus on our steep trails also)

Having worked on EFI cars for years, I assumed that this modern, late model bike EFI system would be clever enough to handle opening & closing a butterfly. It can't!

I always wanted to find 'the magic fix' & have it running smooth, idling up cold ect. without pulling things off.

So, in the end I decided to see if it would run properly without the second flap & idle arm.

On my bike, the difference is awesome :)
 
Dangermouse449 said:
My own TE never really settled on either providing engine braking, or not. It was inconsistent, so you could not ride accordingly.

I.E. if it ALWAYS engine braked, you could be a bit lazier with the rear brake, if it ALWAYS ran-on like a two-smoker you'd get onto the rear brake earlier.

Mine could never make up it's mind.....I've made that decision for it. Ha ha. (Having normal 450cc engine braking is a big plus on our steep trails also)

Having worked on EFI cars for years, I assumed that this modern, late model bike EFI system would be clever enough to handle opening & closing a butterfly. It can't!

I always wanted to find 'the magic fix' & have it running smooth, idling up cold ect. without pulling things off.

So, in the end I decided to see if it would run properly without the second flap & idle arm.

On my bike, the difference is awesome :)
Click to expand...

And so does mine............. end of it.
TC's are not build for On road. So the Emission is not priority number one.
 
Tinken said:
Several people have messaged me asking about removing the secondary butterfly. I do not recommend it.
First of all, you will lose your automatic choke. Many already complain about starting, especially hot starts. The TC gets away without having it because you can pull the choke out which is basically turning the air screw out 20 turns. Secondly, the power will become more abrupt. This works for the TC along with it's cams because on the motocross track, quick, fast acceleration is needed. TC cams develop power fast, but fall off at high rpm, unlike the TE cams which provide even power through out the power band. The TE secondary butterfly will soften the power delivery giving more an "electric motor" type of linear power over the entire power band. This is superior in the technicals, rocks, woods, obstacles, etc.

When I was building my WR511, I had several sets of TC heads, cams, throttle bodies, etc. at my disposal and I only used the TC head, nothing else. I thought about removing the butterfly and machining a TC choke to fit. But I didn't want to loose my progressive XR like power band.
Click to expand...


and what about do this mod on a SMR 511?
my TPS make me crazy! :S
 
Tinken said:
Several people have messaged me asking about removing the secondary butterfly. I do not recommend it.
First of all, you will lose your automatic choke. Many already complain about starting, especially hot starts. The TC gets away without having it because you can pull the choke out which is basically turning the air screw out 20 turns. Secondly, the power will become more abrupt. This works for the TC along with it's cams because on the motocross track, quick, fast acceleration is needed. TC cams develop power fast, but fall off at high rpm, unlike the TE cams which provide even power through out the power band. The TE secondary butterfly will soften the power delivery giving more an "electric motor" type of linear power over the entire power band. This is superior in the technicals, rocks, woods, obstacles, etc.

When I was building my WR511, I had several sets of TC heads, cams, throttle bodies, etc. at my disposal and I only used the TC head, nothing else. I thought about removing the butterfly and machining a TC choke to fit. But I didn't want to loose my progressive XR like power band.
Click to expand...





Sounds great, but for everyone else hm ? Ah yes , lets buy a Power commander Instead................ or JD Tuner.

And the Joke argument doesn't count. The top Butterfly always stays open at least by about 10-15%. Even the bike is switched off !!


In this treat is quite some Interest....... i wonder why ??????????

If i really want all this what you just wrote Tinken... then i will Install the second Butterfly back in to the Bike.. But no. I am just happy now the way she is and turned out. Couldn't have asked for more and even for free.

Same as my Breather works for me perfect since 1000 km without the catch bottle straight into the Airbox. Thanks for supplying the Valve .

I don't mind going out on a Saturday and riding 4 hrs but covering only 35km's. Not because we have a Smoke on every turn off. We ride some nasty shit here in Victoria AUstralia. Rocks and Logs , creeks , rivers. and Quarry's .

Now i can lift the front easier... just like the Guys on the KATO or BERG... the bikes i started riding with. But i liked the 511 more and bought one.

We have Sections here in CH where you Guys talk about Installing a JD Tuner , Power commander and what the heck else you find on the market. Just because people are not happy with Response and power delivery...
Talking about installing Tc Cam's in Te's and or polishing Intake ... Installing TC throttle bodys......



IMHO.... if you are happy with it............ don't touch it. JUST reat THIS TREAT and forget about it.......
but if you are not happy with your bike a 100% and think about changing something, here are your Option's.


A - you buy a JD tuner or Power thing... 100-400 dollar depending where you buy and live and what you buy.
B - remove just the Top Butterfly , have a go with it... 0$ and if u like it , just leave it. Test for your self.
C - U don't like it, you install Electronic tuner.
D - Buy a different bike.
 
The bottom line is you can try removing the butterfly and decide for yourself. Don't like it, put it back in. Free. I'm going to give it a go some day soon. As for a choke I kinda assumed the EFI would naturally squirt more when it reads the temp gauge no?
 
I think it works as a choke in a different way. It helps the engine to get vacuum when starting as our throttle bodies are huge for the engine size. I think this bike has/had low velocity in the intake or low "vacuum" which could really affect low low rpm throttle response and runnings. So maybe they put the secondary butterfly to smoothe it out so it overcomes this drawback. Remember on old small blocks when you threw a 750 double pumper carb on it thinking it would give you "maximum power" and instead ended up with a bog when you whacked the big carb open? Hence why factory and everyone used a vaccum secondary and a 450cfm carb on the same engine.

Maybe same engineering idea here. Lets use a huge throttle body and then add a flap to smoothe the roll on so you don't end up with no vacuum at low rpm high throttle loads?

Yes? Anyone following me?

I doubt they actually tested it when they were "engineering" it.

You know them german/austrians, they think the engineering is perfect, build and go full on production off an "idea" instead of practical application. Just like how ktm threw the 690's into Baja and found out they needed a few...umm...."fixes" to get them right.
 
I have a few questions for those of you who removed the FBW butterfly.

1. Are you still running the idle at the recommended 2 1/4 ish turns out on the brass screw, 2000ish rpm? Or did you lower idle after removing the butterfly?
2. Are you experiencing any difficulties starting (cold, hot) without the automatic choke? Is this why you now run the EarthX battery?

I know people complain about losing the smooth power by removing the FBW butterfly... but you don't have to grab a fist full of throttle. Am I missing something? Is it really that much of a difference in power delivery that it can't be managed by throttle control?


I also like the idea of actually having 450 like engine braking introduced by the other part of this mod.
 
time will tell, just about all the dualsports that are real dirtbikes have
these fueling issues. to think no testing was done or its a stupid design
seems a little much,I am happy with my bike now, and like motosportz,
will probably try it soon just to see. my years of working on bikes 45/
several as a bmw bike mechanic, tell me its not usually a good thing
to remove parts and not replace with something better. most new
bikes come far to lean, and power commander is very common on
all types of bike and atvs. if this mod is good we'll see, the US bikes
come heavily smog proofed and the exhaust is extremely restrictive.
as some have said and myself included they were happy with the
stock bike sorted, but I always want to play, so exhaust, mapping,
PCV ect, ect..we all have different expectations & budgets.
lets remember we bought these boat anchors and help each other
nicely!
 
Motosportz said:
The bottom line is you can try removing the butterfly and decide for yourself. Don't like it, put it back in. Free. I'm going to give it a go some day soon. As for a choke I kinda assumed the EFI would naturally squirt more when it reads the temp gauge no?
Click to expand...

Excellent point.

There isn't really a 'choke' on any efi bikes, there is a choke function, and on TEs & TCs that is different.

The efi system adds more fuelling for cold start by mapping, using messages from the coolant temp switch & air temp switch.
The engine then needs more air to go with it.
On a TC, you pull out the fast idle knob, opening up a bypass port to flow air around the butterfly.
On a TE, the idle arm from the FBW throttle lifts the primary butterfly by turning the cam on the shaft.

Pulling out the butterfly from the FBW should play no part what so ever in normal starting.
(I don't live where it snows, so I can't test at those temps, but at all other times mine is fine)
 
huskylove said:
I think it works as a choke in a different way. It helps the engine to get vacuum when starting as our throttle bodies are huge for the engine size. I think this bike has/had low velocity in the intake or low "vacuum" which could really affect low low rpm throttle response and runnings. So maybe they put the secondary butterfly to smoothe it out so it overcomes this drawback. Remember on old small blocks when you threw a 750 double pumper carb on it thinking it would give you "maximum power" and instead ended up with a bog when you whacked the big carb open? Hence why factory and everyone used a vaccum secondary and a 450cfm carb on the same engine.

Maybe same engineering idea here. Lets use a huge throttle body and then add a flap to smoothe the roll on so you don't end up with no vacuum at low rpm high throttle loads?

Yes? Anyone following me?

Yes, I thought about that too. It was one of the reasons I was reluctant to pull anything out of a factory set-up.
Doesn't seem to be the world-ending, engine blowing failure it might have been lol.
It just gets on & rides like a 450 should & you hold the power of control in your right hand, not the ecu :)
We ride a wide variety of tracks all in a day, flat-out fire trails, rocky hills, technical single track, creeks etc.
Never once do I think 'I wish the ecu would step in a help me with smoothing the power a bit'. ha ha ha.
Click to expand...
 
Whittaker said:
I have a few questions for those of you who removed the FBW butterfly.

1. Are you still running the idle at the recommended 2 1/4 ish turns out on the brass screw, 2000ish rpm? Or did you lower idle after removing the butterfly?
2. Are you experiencing any difficulties starting (cold, hot) without the automatic choke? Is this why you now run the EarthX battery?

I know people complain about losing the smooth power by removing the FBW butterfly... but you don't have to grab a fist full of throttle. Am I missing something? Is it really that much of a difference in power delivery that it can't be managed by throttle control?


I also like the idea of actually having 450 like engine braking introduced by the other part of this mod.
Click to expand...


You don't HAVE to modify your own bike this way, but it worked for mine.

1 - Not sure where my brass screw has ended up atm, maybe 3 turns. It works now with the other things I did, that's all i know.

2 - I don't have super cold weather (Min +5 Celsius, but no, starts fine), hot starts, no change at all. - normal.

3 - Fitted my Lithium battery for the times I've stalled it on TDC & the lead/acid battery had trouble winding it over, It used to reset the dash all the time while doing it.

4 -Love the engine braking, the standard TE gearing is a bit tall even in 1st for some of our downhills & it wanted to run away. You can't gear it down with sprockets as then the top speed is too low on the open stuff. Much better now for our stuff.
 
Tinken said:
Several people have messaged me asking about removing the secondary butterfly. I do not recommend it.
First of all, you will lose your automatic choke. Many already complain about starting, especially hot starts. The TC gets away without having it because you can pull the choke out which is basically turning the air screw out 20 turns. Secondly, the power will become more abrupt. This works for the TC along with it's cams because on the motocross track, quick, fast acceleration is needed. TC cams develop power fast, but fall off at high rpm, unlike the TE cams which provide even power through out the power band. The TE secondary butterfly will soften the power delivery giving more an "electric motor" type of linear power over the entire power band. This is superior in the technicals, rocks, woods, obstacles, etc.

When I was building my WR511, I had several sets of TC heads, cams, throttle bodies, etc. at my disposal and I only used the TC head, nothing else. I thought about removing the butterfly and machining a TC choke to fit. But I didn't want to loose my progressive XR like power band.
Click to expand...


Tinken -

Do you have a method/modification to increase the engine breaking power on the 449/511? Increased engine breaking has been the part of the this thread I was most interested in. There is kind of a random lag until the engine breaking hits sometimes - adds a bit a drama to a ride for me!

If you have an idea on this subject - please add a topic on your portion on the forum. Thank you.
 
Tinken said:
Can you explain further?
Click to expand...


To me it sounds to be exactly what my bike did from time to time. Maybe 3 or 4 times a ride & not on others at all.....random.
Riding along a trail, cut the throttle & the idle speed is about (no tacho) 4000 rpm, the only way to drop it down at times on my own te449 was to pull in the clutch. TPS & idle screw resets didn't change mine.
 
Tinken said:
I've seen this issue before, fixed with ecu reflash. And you can't really reflash a my11 449, gotcha. You can flash your own maps into these ecu's but the system to do it is $6000.
Click to expand...


Perhaps that is why at some point at the dealers it ended up with someone else's ecu in it.....the plot thickens lol
Flashing my own maps in you say.....hmmmm I like the sound of that, if not the expense :)
 
I will give my personal review with one small ride in tonight. It seems that this super easy removal of the butterfly has caused the power delivery to be night and day better! It doesn't bog when you get on the gas and it feels smoother. All I've done to my bike so far is put the plug for map 2 in. Haven't messed with the throttle thing but that might not be needed for me.. can't wait to ride more to further my review.

Quick tip.. unscrew the air box and after loosening the clamp by the idle screw for the intake hose you pull from inside the air box and the tube will move out of the way. I was confused until I realizes the air box isn't one piece all the way to the throttle body.

Thanks so much for this great discussion!
 
MLuker said:
I will give my personal review with one small ride in tonight. It seems that this super easy removal of the butterfly has caused the power delivery to be night and day better! It doesn't bog when you get on the gas and it feels smoother. All I've done to my bike so far is put the plug for map 2 in. Haven't messed with the throttle thing but that might not be needed for me.. can't wait to ride more to further my review.

Quick tip.. unscrew the air box and after loosening the clamp by the idle screw for the intake hose you pull from inside the air box and the tube will move out of the way. I was confused until I realizes the air box isn't one piece all the way to the throttle body.

Thanks so much for this great discussion!
Click to expand...


Cool, look forward to hearing back how it goes on a longer ride. We could be on a winner by the sound of it :)

Yes, as 9880sts pointed out mid-post, you can pull the air-boot up into the air-box without removing the whole box as I did in the pics.

I was due for checking my valves at the time I did the mods, so pulled out the whole lot.

It isn't a bad design, although you need to be really particular when you refit the boot into the housing that it has sealed all the way around Or

dirt will kill the engine.
 
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