449/511 G450 Torque Limiter replacement

[9880sts]

It is a TC not a TE. The TC is considered a racing bike and comes with a much shorter warranty in the US.

ok sounds fair then,

just a question on the side.
Whats the Gearing likem on the TC?

whats the Top speed of it?

 

[Dangermouse449]

Should be a lot slower Helmut.
The gearbox is the same as TE/SMR but without our silly low ratio 6th gear & the standard sprockets were 15:53.

 

[Husky Bob]

My dealer told me that besides the slightly larger rear sprocket and 1 gear less, as dangermouse already pointed out, the TC also has a different CAM to that of the TE, however, I cannot confirm this as fact or fiction.

 

[Tinken]

True, TC is designed to develop power quickly, but flattens out.

 

[Motosportz]

EFI and pipe is different too.

 

[Dangermouse449]

And head/piston, yes.
All these things with the lower gearing & missing 6th will mean it will accelerate faster through its 5 gears, but the top speed will be much less, unless the gearing is changed (sprockets)

 

[PawPaw]

FYI: I have gone from the stock 15/53 on my TC to a 15/50 and it has helped with the lower gear a good bit, but now it's a tad high in 5th gear. If I go to a 48 rear and stay with the 15 front it will be good everywhere 5th. The bike just has a strange gear set of ratios as compared to any other mx bike I have ever owned. What I do like about it is that with the clutch mounted on the crank the engine will still lug down to a slow walk speed in the corners in 3rd gear and still pull out without the use of the clutch. If you do the math you will see that even with the 15/50 gears the overall final drive ratios in each gear is still much lower that a stock geared Honda CRF450R until you hit 5th gear and then it is taller.

Paw Paw

 

[Big Timmy]

Just a heads up to any of those who were asking or looking for Torque Limiters for your 449/511s.

New Torque limiters available at Bike Bandit now during current sale going on for $161.45 for the "B" version.

Look them up under BMW G450X parts 2009 or 2010.

 

[PawPaw]

Thank you!

Paw Paw

 

[9880sts]

Just went through the Checkout... for shipping to Australia.

Subtotal:

$161.45​

Sales Tax:

$32.29​

Shipping:

$79.13​

Payment Total

$272.87​

(You will be charged when your order ships.)
WHats the go with Sales tax to Australia ?? But still Cheaper then to order from Husky Australia

 

[Huskinator]

I know shipping to AU is high, but 20% sales tax...

 

[Tinken]

I know shipping to AU is high, but 20% sales tax...

Holy shit, I love AUS, but damn..

 

[Dangermouse449]

Parts should be tax free to foreign markets.
Aus has 10% sales tax here also, but is exempt if sent OS.

 

[Campbell]

Just went through the Checkout... for shipping to Australia.

Subtotal:

$161.45​

Sales Tax:

$32.29​

Shipping:

$79.13​

Payment Total

$272.87​

(You will be charged when your order ships.)
WHats the go with Sales tax to Australia ?? But still Cheaper then to order from Husky Australia

Helmut, the last time I purchased from BB - no sales Tax, besides the same would apply to all sales between US and OZ. First I have heard of it something not right. By the way same price from Max BMW, no sales tax and cheaper UPS Express postage.

 

[Campbell]

#1 11 27 7 719 129 from BMW is the complete assembly as per Husky, not replacement discs

Nm rating will vary due to manufacturing tolerance - typically 228Nm +/- 2%

Tinken's explanation of the oiling/crankcase ventilation is as usual spot on the money, the original post as excellent as it is should be emended to reflect this. ... just my two bobs worth.

Special tools required to test are available from Hall's Cycles http://www.halls-cycles.com/default.asp?page=catalogs

Socket #8000H5767 $58.95
Holding Jig #8000H5020 $195.99 (A Vice with soft jaws will do, I use a bench mounted three Jaw Chuck - good use for a worn out lathe chuck)

 

[magwych]

Sorry to dig this one up form its grave but what is the function of the torque limiter?
I am interested in this because there have been a few failures on the CCM GP450s recently. The resolution usuay requires a period of down time in a BMW workshop, waiting for parts.

I am wondering what the effect would be of a "field repair" in a local workshop, by say bolting ir woelding the parts togther, removing any slippage at all? For soemeone stuck a long way from a helpful BMW workshop thatcoudl save $$$$$ and lots of time. The correct repair may require more parts to effect, but that can be planned for and not need assistance or transportation to get there.

One again, aplologies for the necromancy

 

[silverstreakNZ]

Agree with the above . What is it designed to protect ? . And why not just put a nut and bolt through it ?
Do the pulses break the gear box ? Or it it's supposed to slip if the bike seizes ?
Thanks

 

[Big Timmy]

I will try to explain.

It's intended purpose is to take the shock load off of the gear box. For example when the bike lands under power off of a jump the Torque Limiter comes into play. Remember these engines run in reverse rotation from other engines. With the Clutch turning at crankshaft speed. So the Torque Limiter is a direct link to the transmission to reverse that rotation to get the gearbox rotating in a forward driven direction. Crankshaft CCW- Torque Limiter/Primary CW- intermediate CCW- Countershaft CW- from the right side of the engine.

Locking it up or making it solid would likely make it out of balance if done wrong but doing this could likely lead to a catastrophic result.

You can service the TL by taking the Torque Limiter apart and scuffing the steel plates with 60 grit sand paper and reassembling it to tighten things by just changing the shim under the outer bearing. This shim set is sold in a set of 3 thicknesses and is Bike Bandit BMW part # 11117719429 it costs about $30.00. Doing this shim swap can in theory increase or decrease the final preload of the Torque Limiter which would result in a higher or lower breakaway point. Considering of course the amount of wear to the TLs plates and the 3 thicknesses of the available shims themselves. These can be limiting factors. It has been done. However once the Torque Limiter gets to this point of being worn out the bearings should probably be replaced anyway. They have been known to let go and so has the TL itself by coming apart in the engines casing. Its roller bearings are the smallest in the entire engine and are put under a tremendous load during operation. So skimping on this important component, its bearings, or trying to do a field repair in a pinch is more difficult then you may think. As the engine nearly needs to come out of the chassis to do this, depending on what year the 449/511 frame is ? A few of the screws holding the right side cover on are near impossible to get out. Which for the first time, they would need to be backed out in the chassis and the bolts shank cut to get the head off. Once the cover is removed the stub could be removed and the bolt replaced with a short trimmed version that will fit while the engine remains in the frame. A cut off allen wrench can be fabricated to help do this. I made one out of a 4" long piece of 1/2" wide by .090 thick steel strap with a hole drilled into one end to accept a short hexed stub cut off an allen wrench of the proper size. I tig welded that stub into the 4" metal strip to make a wrench. It is a really low profile and slips into the limited space better than cutting off and trying to use the curved portion of a standard allen wrench. So these side cover screws can be removed, if you go about it right. So what I'm saying is getting the side cover off in the G450X chassis is very difficult to do this in as well. Husky engines have these rear screws sunk flush and are different then the G450s. I have both engines but the same tight fit and limited space in the chassis applies

The Torque Limiter is what it is. It has an important intended purpose and it has an intended service life span as well. It should be checked, serviced or simply replaced as per the engines specifications. A gasket set is needed, which has all the seals and water pump gaskets as well. The cases side cover gasket may come off and be re-usable. However the water pump has to be disassembled to do this, as its a part of removing the right side cover to get to the TL. So its not a good idea to skimp on the water pumps gaskets and seals either, or it could be the first thing springing a leak during operation.

Once it begins to slip just change it and make sure you are getting the Breather gasses out of the engine as efficiently as possible. Do the breather mod. It will make the Torque Limiter last longer.

I got something else to say here that is important. Like it or not the following is not a rant.

I know a bunch of the past information in the threads for the TL failures has been removed from this forum. Not only was it removed by a member but a great deal of information from everybody else who had ever took their time and responded to those threads by posting to the subject was removed as well.

I don't understand how "Café Husky" could have let that happen and it being removed by the member who did it was totally disrespectful and a total disservice to the Forum and all the time members spent posting this useful information that took about 2 years to do so.

Deleting your own posts is an option we all have. Deleting others posts for no reason in the process is BS as far as I am concerned.

It causes people like myself to have to repeat information needed on a forum to have to fill members in on a subject as best as we can. When the answers to these questions was all right here at 1 time in the first place. Its a damned shame that this happened.

I Moderate the BMW G450 riders forum myself. I have myself in the past deleted some of my own posts. When they were redundant. I would never do the same to others.
Unless of course they were just spammers and slipped through the cracks and posted BS themselves. "Poof" you are gone.

A great amount of information on the options of the breather mods that can lead to the engines TL living a longer life was removed from the threads as well.

I recommend looking back into the forum and finding what is left and reading as much as you can.

I personally today would recommend the "DMD designs" valve cover breather myself for the 449/511. It doesn't require modifying or drilling a big hole in the valve cover. It only requires cutting of the gasket to install. Breather tanks are up to you and there are a few options.

We just recently had a modified "prototype" plastic version of the DMD breather shipped to a member on the G450 Forum. The reason for this was that we have been working with "David"- CH member "Dangermouse" of DMD designs on a modified version of his breather that specifically fits the BMW G450X chassis with our direct input. Making the hose routing options an easier installation. It will be made out of Billet Aluminum and it goes into production soon.

Hope you can find the useful info back in the CH forum to get up to speed on the TL issues. You could look at some of the old threads on the G450riders Forum as well.

I will never consider myself to be an expert on the engineering aspects of this component. I like to keep my bikes assembled and ride. When it breaks I fix it.

Hope this information is helpful.

Below is a few pictures of the hard to get at screws of a G450 Engine on the bench. As well as the stubby flatbar allen wrench I had to make to allow removal of the side cover to get it off if I wanted to do it while the engine was still in the frame. I have always just pulled the engine though to do this.

 

[magwych]

I will try to explain.

It's intended purpose is to take the shock load off of the gear box. For example when the bike lands under power off of a jump the Torque Limiter comes into play. Remember these engines run in reverse rotation from other engines. With the Clutch turning at crankshaft speed. So the Torque Limiter is a direct link to the transmission to reverse that rotation to get the gearbox rotating in a forward driven direction. Crankshaft CCW- Torque Limiter/Primary CW- intermediate CCW- Countershaft CW- from the right side of the engine.

Locking it up or making it solid would likely make it out of balance if done wrong but doing this could likely lead to a catastrophic result.

You can service the TL by taking the Torque Limiter apart and scuffing the steel plates with 60 grit sand paper and reassembling it to tighten things by just changing the shim under the outer bearing. This shim set is sold in a set of 3 thicknesses and is Bike Bandit BMW part # 11117719429 it costs about $30.00. Doing this shim swap can in theory increase or decrease the final preload of the Torque Limiter which would result in a higher or lower breakaway point. Considering of course the amount of wear to the TLs plates and the 3 thicknesses of the available shims themselves. These can be limiting factors. It has been done. However once the Torque Limiter gets to this point of being worn out the bearings should probably be replaced anyway. They have been known to let go and so has the TL itself by coming apart in the engines casing. Its roller bearings are the smallest in the entire engine and are put under a tremendous load during operation. So skimping on this important component, its bearings, or trying to do a field repair in a pinch is more difficult then you may think. As the engine nearly needs to come out of the chassis to do this, depending on what year the 449/511 frame is ? A few of the screws holding the right side cover on are near impossible to get out. Which for the first time, they would need to be backed out in the chassis and the bolts shank cut to get the head off. Once the cover is removed the stub could be removed and the bolt replaced with a short trimmed version that will fit while the engine remains in the frame. A cut off allen wrench can be fabricated to help do this. I made one out of a 4" long piece of 1/2" wide by .090 thick steel strap with a hole drilled into one end to accept a short hexed stub cut off an allen wrench of the proper size. I tig welded that stub into the 4" metal strip to make a wrench. It is a really low profile and slips into the limited space better than cutting off and trying to use the curved portion of a standard allen wrench. So these side cover screws can be removed, if you go about it right. So what I'm saying is getting the side cover off in the G450X chassis is very difficult to do this in as well. Husky engines have these rear screws sunk flush and are different then the G450s. I have both engines but the same tight fit and limited space in the chassis applies

The Torque Limiter is what it is. It has an important intended purpose and it has an intended service life span as well. It should be checked, serviced or simply replaced as per the engines specifications. A gasket set is needed, which has all the seals and water pump gaskets as well. The cases side cover gasket may come off and be re-usable. However the water pump has to be disassembled to do this, as its a part of removing the right side cover to get to the TL. So its not a good idea to skimp on the water pumps gaskets and seals either, or it could be the first thing springing a leak during operation.

Once it begins to slip just change it and make sure you are getting the Breather gasses out of the engine as efficiently as possible. Do the breather mod. It will make the Torque Limiter last longer.

I got something else to say here that is important. Like it or not the following is not a rant.

I know a bunch of the past information in the threads for the TL failures has been removed from this forum. Not only was it removed by a member but a great deal of information from everybody else who had ever took their time and responded to those threads by posting to the subject was removed as well.

I don't understand how "Café Husky" could have let that happen and it being removed by the member who did it was totally disrespectful and a total disservice to the Forum and all the time members spent posting this useful information that took about 2 years to do so.

Deleting your own posts is an option we all have. Deleting others posts for no reason in the process is BS as far as I am concerned.

It causes people like myself to have to repeat information needed on a forum to have to fill members in on a subject as best as we can. When the answers to these questions was all right here at 1 time in the first place. Its a damned shame that this happened.

I Moderate the BMW G450 riders forum myself. I have myself in the past deleted some of my own posts. When they were redundant. I would never do the same to others.
Unless of course they were just spammers and slipped through the cracks and posted BS themselves. "Poof" you are gone.

A great amount of information on the options of the breather mods that can lead to the engines TL living a longer life was removed from the threads as well.

I recommend looking back into the forum and finding what is left and reading as much as you can.

I personally today would recommend the "DMD designs" valve cover breather myself for the 449/511. It doesn't require modifying or drilling a big hole in the valve cover. It only requires cutting of the gasket to install. Breather tanks are up to you and there are a few options.

We just recently had a modified "prototype" plastic version of the DMD breather shipped to a member on the G450 Forum. The reason for this was that we have been working with "David"- CH member "Dangermouse" of DMD designs on a modified version of his breather that specifically fits the BMW G450X chassis with our direct input. Making the hose routing options an easier installation. It will be made out of Billet Aluminum and it goes into production soon.

Hope you can find the useful info back in the CH forum to get up to speed on the TL issues. You could look at some of the old threads on the G450riders Forum as well.

I will never consider myself to be an expert on the engineering aspects of this component. I like to keep my bikes assembled and ride. When it breaks I fix it.

Hope this information is helpful.

Below is a few pictures of the hard to get at screws of a G450 Engine on the bench. As well as the stubby flatbar allen wrench I had to make to allow removal of the side cover to get it off if I wanted to do it while the engine was still in the frame. I have always just pulled the engine though to do this.

View attachment 79752View attachment 79753

Thank you Big Timmy.

Picking up on your tangential rant, I totally agree with you regarding what a PITA that is.

I have come to this forum after the fallout with the member that you allude to. I find many references to him, the information that he posted and the conversations around that information. As I understand it, at the time he flounced out of the forum he was a moderator, which means he had enchanced permissions that allowed him to delete what he wanted. It seems he was having a major tantrum at the time :-(

"Cafe Husky" may have misjudged that person's character but it is gard to see how they could have had the foresight to stop what happened. Unless forums delegate control to a team of moderators they either become stifled as one person attempts to review proposed posts, or descend into Keyboard Troll-Warrior slanging battles...

Sadly, there are those of us that are aware that great information may have been posted, and some that have seen and understood it. Those of in that first group must now rely on those in the second ....

Anyway, back to the TL...
It is such a shame that what is now considered to be a wear-item is so well buried inside the 'cases. I had seen discussion on a G450X forum alluding to the TL's function being a transmission shock absorber, that could be replaced with a cush-drive in the rear wheel. Sure, an idler type gear is required to reverse rotational direction, but does it need to have break away point? Could it not, musing idly, have a composite type construction of a bonded resin between the 2 parts to absorb some shocks and vibration?

 

[Big Timmy]

You too, magwych.
Just as I understand your apologizing for your Necromancy of a dead issue that should have never been buried or put to rest. For people that actually still ride these bikes and enjoy them. This TL issue is still and always will be a reality. You ride, it will at some point be an issue again. When it comes to the TL ? There is no black magic here to predict the future. Riding the bike does that for you as long as you comprehend that there are service intervals for everything at some point. Including us.

However, From the conversations we G450X riders on the Forums have had with Speedbrain, Touratech and some of the other factory backed G450X racing teams and those sponsors involved with the rally teams that have the intellectual rights to the design of the equipment to make these bikes competitive. They willingly shared any and all information to us about this device and its short comings. What they did to modify it, if at all while experimenting and testing, how often they changed it. Etc. Without all the bragging and falsely claimed proprietary BS.

They then joined our G450 Forum and re-started production of many of the rally conversion parts needed to convert these G450s to full on rally use. which can exceed $30,000 for a full on build. The G450X owners are still doing these rally conversions now.

These builds include the one piece Subframe mounted fuel tanks, seats, skidplates, downswept exhausts, extended swingarms, full rally fairings, Navigation towers, Etc. You name it, we can still get it.

Many of these rally conversion builds enjoy the recommended benefits of the rear cush hubs. This in its self will take some of the shock load off of the TL in the engine, which makes it last longer.

The TL remains to be a component that the race teams and current racers still leave in the engine. Its cheap, replaceable and just good insurance to keep the gears intact and the transmission functioning. Keep in mind the G450 has a 5 spd. gearbox. The Husqvarna has a 6 spd. gearbox with 20% narrower gears, (unless you have a TC engine- with the 5 spd). Like I have.

IMHO, I would leave the TL in place.
Creative engineers more than once have made the TL a solid unit. Or shimmed it up so tight that it wouldn't break away until about double the recommended breakaway release point. These modified version TLs have been tried by some of the factory race teams, under the most extreme circumstances.

These were race teams backed by BMW on the world wide stage, that had unlimited funding and parts coming out of their ears. They always went back to the same thing> running the TL just like the rest of us.

There's no black magic in that.