Forum Software and please don't do what TT is doing...

[Coffee]

If you're planning on switching to IP.Boards then I'm going to laugh my ass off at you when it runs like crap (and it will ). I've been working with a very large site that runs IP.Boards and no matter what you do (besides shutting all the features off), anytime you get any kind of crowd on the board you start to have major performance issues (making it unusable). VB may not be perfect but it's by far better than any other forum software out there.

3.0.0 or 3.05?

edit: server load?

 

[supergper]

FWIW, this is just a setting within your control panel. Go in to your CP and choose user options, under there (the very last option) change it from WYSIWYG Editor to basic text.

Advrider is the same way as TT by default. Drives me nuts.

Nevermind, TT has changed from VB (been a while since I've been there). They are now using the lovely IP.Boards...see my comment above about them

 

[supergper]

3.0.0 or 3.05?

edit: server load?

3.05...that's always been IP.Boards support response "oh, you need to upgrade"...we are on the most current version...the real answer is they need to put a product out that's worth running.

 

[Coffee]

Nevermind, TT has changed from VB (been a while since I've been there). They are now using the lovely IP.Boards...see my comment above about them

No... they are using Huddler.com

I'm not sure who they are actually.

 

[supergper]

No... they are using Huddler.com

I'm not sure who they are actually.

Yeah, Huddler is a skinned IP.Board

 

[Coffee]

3.05...that's always been IP.Boards support response "oh, you need to upgrade"...we are on the most current version...the real answer is they need to put a product out that's worth running.

As stated, vb is no longer viable. Do you have another suggestion?

The theory was to take the site to the next level because forums are a terrible way of trying to archive information for easy retrieval, that has been the plan all along.

The server is zippy enough and we can always upgrade. We had almost 100 online yesterday, many of which were bots harvesting information as rapidly as possible, and nothing slowed down at all.

Could you post/pm a link to the site you are referring to running 3.0.5?

 

[Ruffus]

I'm thinking TT's new format really sucks. First three words out of my mouth when I logged in were WTF?

 

[supergper]

As stated, vb is no longer viable. Do you have another suggestion?

The theory was to take the site to the next level because forums are a terrible way of trying to archive information for easy retrieval, that has been the plan all along.

The server is zippy enough and we can always upgrade. We had almost 100 online yesterday, many of which were bots harvesting information as rapidly as possible, and nothing slowed down at all.

Could you post/pm a link to the site you are referring to running 3.0.5?

I agree completely, forums are a horrible way to archive/display information. If you decide to run IP.Boards, get ready to pay to have a smooth running board. The site I've been helping with is running two machines, a DB with a quad core proc and 12GB of memory and a web server with a quad core proc and 8GB of memory. If they were running VB, they wouldn't even be breaking a sweat, with IP.Boards they are hammered. They average around 400 users on at once. My best suggestions would be to get ready to have a customized forum software (IP. Boards) or stick with VB. Stick with 3.8 for now until 4.0 gets it's act together. I'm not sure what your bias is against vb but it is the best forum software out there hands down. Also, I know you've mentioned you don't like to mess with the underlying code of the forum or have additional plugins...well IP.Boards doesn't even have simple ad integration yet (the most basic need of a forum package that is going to provide income). You want to run vendor banners, get ready to have custom code.

 

[Coffee]

I agree completely, forums are a horrible way to archive/display information. If you decide to run IP.Boards, get ready to pay to have a smooth running board. The site I've been helping with is running two machines, a DB with a quad core proc and 12GB of memory and a web server with a quad core proc and 8GB of memory. If they were running VB, they wouldn't even be breaking a sweat, with IP.Boards they are hammered. They average around 400 users on at once. My best suggestions would be to get ready to have a customized forum software (IP. Boards) or stick with VB. Stick with 3.8 for now until 4.0 gets it's act together. I'm not sure what your bias is against vb but it is the best forum software out there hands down. Also, I know you've mentioned you don't like to mess with the underlying code of the forum or have additional plugins...well IP.Boards doesn't even have simple ad integration yet (the most basic need of a forum package that is going to provide income). You want to run vendor banners, get ready to have custom code.

I believe it comes down to implementation. Without knowing how customized the site you are referring to is, I'm not sure how I should use your input.

Regarding vb, my distinct impression is they will never get their act together. I could enumerate the reasons, but suffice it to say they are many.

We can certainly write custom code easy enough, and use plugins, we are using several. My basic approach is to use the stock software 'creatively' when possible though.

As far as performance, I understand what you mean, however:

• Until just a few weeks ago IPS company forums were completely on a vps, they just went to a dedicated server. They average 500-700 online.
• vb.com uses 5? servers and is still occasionally doggedly slow, maybe 700-850 users?
• tt at last count was up to 7 servers, and they really don't have that many people online usually, maybe 700? As of late they have over 1000, but their timeout could be different now, or people might be taking an extra close look since the change (I am). There are many forums with much more people online, I just checked gaiaonline and currently they have 50k online. Which gets directly back to what I said - it comes down to implementation.

For the record, tt loads really fast when I am logged in. 0.3 seconds? But when I am logged out and see the ads it is about 20x slower, 6 seconds?. The ads are flash and those take time to load, although they might be cached the next time. I am a paying member at TT so when I am logged in I am not shown the ads.

Are you an admin on the that site you are referring to?

 

[Brian]

Yea the new TT isn't to hot. However I suspect it will get better. As with the last upgrade there was some growing pains for a while. With a change this big there are bound to be problems. I'm giving it till mid May to pass judgement.

 

[DoctorDemento]

Okay, I don't know much about the various different forum software out there, but how about Simple Machines Forum? I moderate at a Yamaha IT site that uses it and it's not so bad as a user IMO.

 

[supergper]

I believe it comes down to implementation. Without knowing how customized the site you are referring to is, I'm not sure how I should use your input.

Regarding vb, my distinct impression is they will never get their act together. I could enumerate the reasons, but suffice it to say they are many.

We can certainly write custom code easy enough, and use plugins, we are using several. My basic approach is to use the stock software 'creatively' when possible though.

As far as performance, I understand what you mean, however:

• Until just a few weeks ago IPS company forums were completely on a vps, they just went to a dedicated server. They average 500-700 online.
• vb.com uses 5? servers and is still occasionally doggedly slow, maybe 700-850 users?
• tt at last count was up to 7 servers, and they really don't have that many people online usually, maybe 700? As of late they have over 1000, but their timeout could be different now, or people might be taking an extra close look since the change (I am). There are many forums with much more people online, I just checked gaiaonline and currently they have 50k online. Which gets directly back to what I said - it comes down to implementation.

For the record, tt loads really fast when I am logged in. 0.3 seconds? But when I am logged out and see the ads it is about 20x slower, 6 seconds?. The ads are flash and those take time to load, although they might be cached the next time. I am a paying member at TT so when I am logged in I am not shown the ads.

Are you an admin on the that site you are referring to?

Yeah, it definitely comes down to implementation, but you may as well start with the best you can. Why are you comparing to gaiaonline? They use phpbb...and I'm willing to bet they have fulltime developers and admins supporting their site.

Go to www.big-boards.com and tell me how many of the top 25 are running IP.Boards? While you may say that you aren't that large, it does show you what the boards that really know what they are doing in the forum world are running.

I really don't care what you run for forum software, apparently you take first hand feedback as offensive or something. You seem to be getting a bit defensive. I'm only offering advice after having run several large forums. From the time I have been around here I have gotten the distinct impression that both you and your other admin (Moose Head) are both fairly new to the admin side of the forum world, I figured you'd appreciate the firsthand feedback. Ignore it if you don't want it.

I'm not an admin on the one site I've been referring to. Due to my fulltime job as a System Engineer for one of the largest online retailers in the world, I have a very extensive knowledge of systems and especially web facing systems. So I've been tweaking their backend servers for them. I am an admin for several other sites all with 15K+ members and all of them averaging 200+ members at just about any given time.

Good luck with your upgrade, I hope it goes smooth and you continue to have a tight running site. If you want help, speak up, I'm happy to help you out any way I can.

 

[Coffee]

Okay, I don't know much about the various different forum software out there, but how about Simple Machines Forum? I moderate at a Yamaha IT site that uses it and it's not so bad as a user IMO.

Some *huge* forums use SMF, it works great. A few reasons I'd rather not use it:

• I strongly prefer a paid solution for the support
• SMF seems to be in a transitional phase, they are having leadership issues from what I understand (not sure what the details are).
• SMF functions significantly different than vb which is what this forum is using

 

[Coffee]

Yeah, it definitely comes down to implementation, but you may as well start with the best you can. Why are you comparing to gaiaonline? They use phpbb...and I'm willing to bet they have fulltime developers and admins supporting their site.

Go to www.big-boards.com and tell me how many of the top 25 are running IP.Boards? While you may say that you aren't that large, it does show you what the boards that really know what they are doing in the forum world are running.

I really don't care what you run for forum software, apparently you take first hand feedback as offensive or something. You seem to be getting a bit defensive. I'm only offering advice after having run several large forums. From the time I have been around here I have gotten the distinct impression that both you and your other admin (Moose Head) are both fairly new to the admin side of the forum world, I figured you'd appreciate the firsthand feedback. Ignore it if you don't want it.

I'm not an admin on the one site I've been referring to. Due to my fulltime job as a System Engineer for one of the largest online retailers in the world, I have a very extensive knowledge of systems and especially web facing systems. So I've been tweaking their backend servers for them. I am an admin for several other sites all with 15K+ members and all of them averaging 200+ members at just about any given time.

I mentioned gaiaonline because most people think 1000 people online is a huge number, while it is a big number, there are many other forums significantly bigger.

I am quite aware that big-boards do not have a lot of IPB forums, that may change

I am quite sure I sound defensive, but I believe an even better word is frustrated. Really frustrated. I want the very best for the members of cafe husky and I've been groping several hours per day since December about which software to use.

Yes this is my first forum, and except for moderating on TT for a year that is my only online experience. Moosehead is a really good tech person, except for things I ask him to do, he really is not involved. He likes it that way.

Now that you have mentioned you background I know how to use your information better. I definitely agree with you with regards to vb3.8, it is much faster than IPB... I'm not sure that applies to v4 at the moment, or even v4 in the future. Obviously we could stay frozen in time just the way we are, but I really do think things could be better.

Good luck with your upgrade, I hope it goes smooth and you continue to have a tight running site. If you want help, speak up, I'm happy to help you out any way I can.

Yes! You may be able to help! Are you good with IP.Content? Or know someone who is? I have been searching....

 

[supergper]

Yes! You may be able to help! Are you good with IP.Content? Or know someone who is? I have been searching....

I've used most CMS systems out there but have never used IP.Content. I'd be happy to help you with it (it's just HTML/PHP/CSS) so it can't be that big of a deal nor that different to learn from some of the other CMS systems.

 

[Coffee]

I've used most CMS systems out there but have never used IP.Content. I'd be happy to help you with it (it's just HTML/PHP/CSS) so it can't be that big of a deal nor that different to learn from some of the other CMS systems.

It is their custom stuff I'm having trouble with. It really isn't the cms part. Actually they don't even call IP.Content a cms, they just call it IP.content. And from what I can tell, it would help cafe husky tremendously. Much better than a cms. If you do know of someone in the future I'd appreciate it.

Actually displaying the information is mostly html (or equivalent) and Moose head can handle that.


Question:
From a reliability point of view, with performance secondary, how would you rate the following on a scale of 1-10, 10 being best?

• vb3.8
• v4
• ipb3.0.5

 

[ray_ray]

lol ... Everyone wants change and then when you get ... u don't like it ... lol ...

You'll get used to it over there and you will learn to love it ... lol ...

Same a V6s, 4 cylinders, 4ts, computers in general, gray hair, nose & ear hair, cellphones, blurry vision, $3GAL gas , etc ... and all the other changes in your life

 

[supergper]

Question:
From a reliability point of view, with performance secondary, how would you rate the following on a scale of 1-10, 10 being best?

• vb3.8 7.5
• v4 4.5
• ipb3.0.5 5

Straight up reliability I would put 3.8 a bit above all the others right now, but like you mentioned you gotta move forward. v4 in testing was looking good, but after more testing of later releases and more of a load it's proven to be not nearly as reliable. I've been getting a lot more MySQL errors with it and a small load vs. 3.8 with a large load (no errors ever). I've not had much of a performance issue with v4. ipb3.0.5 is miles ahead of 3.0.0 and if your database is tuned correctly, you won't have too many issues with reliability. ipb does take more resources to run a website of the same size on vb. However, reliability and performance go hand in hand. What good is a website that never goes down if you only have a couple people on but if you get too many you start to have crashes (for whatever reason). Also, a "crash" isn't necessarily a 404 or a 503. If the site takes too long to load and the user goes elsewhere, well, that's worse than a 404 or 503.

My last bit of advice, which I think you're already good on, is make sure that your server software isn't windows. Yes, this sounds odd but the site I've been helping with was on Win2K8 Getting them on to a Linux solution made a huge difference (I used to be a Window Admin for the same company I currently work for so it wasn't lack of knowledge either ).

 

[supergper]

lol ... Everyone wants change and then when you get ... u don't like it ... lol ...

That's the absolute truth!

 

[Coffee]

Straight up reliability I would put 3.8 a bit above all the others right now, but like you mentioned you gotta move forward. v4 in testing was looking good, but after more testing of later releases and more of a load it's proven to be not nearly as reliable. I've been getting a lot more MySQL errors with it and a small load vs. 3.8 with a large load (no errors ever). I've not had much of a performance issue with v4. ipb3.0.5 is miles ahead of 3.0.0 and if your database is tuned correctly, you won't have too many issues with reliability. ipb does take more resources to run a website of the same size on vb. However, reliability and performance go hand in hand. What good is a website that never goes down if you only have a couple people on but if you get too many you start to have crashes (for whatever reason). Also, a "crash" isn't necessarily a 404 or a 503. If the site takes too long to load and the user goes elsewhere, well, that's worse than a 404 or 503.

This is good information. Thanks!

I would rate them like this, across all browsers (IE6?) and platforms, but it sounds like you have far more experience.
* vb3.8 = 9+
* v4 = 4.5
* ipb3.0.5 = 7

Although I must say I've not seen anyone else describe 3.0.5 performing so poorly, and I'm still confused why they could run their site on a vps, although it was taking 10 seconds to load with 800 people on it.

How customized is the 3.0.5 site?

My last bit of advice, which I think you're already good on, is make sure that your server software isn't windows. Yes, this sounds odd but the site I've been helping with was on Win2K8 Getting them on to a Linux solution made a huge difference (I used to be a Window Admin for the same company I currently work for so it wasn't lack of knowledge either ).

We are on Linux with MySQL, not windows with MSSQL. The server load is usually around 0.02 these days.


I wanted to send you a PM with a file attached, but of course PMs on v3.8 cannot have attachments.