PC5 + Autotune + cool mufflers happening soon, will keep you posted.

[nev..]

I don't have any experience with these how much difference is there between the "trick the computer" chip and the PC that essentially replaces it?

I won't claim to be the expert in these matters, but from my understanding, the booster plug and the other plug just influence to enhance the behaviour of the bike using the factory EFI map by lying about the ambient temperature, while the Power commander will completely remap the EFI without any regard for the stock factory map.

The understanding I have, is that bikes ship to different markets with slightly different factory maps, which might be tweaked a bit to get around local regulations. For example if a bike with the factory exhaust is too loud to get by a particular countries regulations, but the manufacturers know that the country will test for noise at a particular RPM range, at a particular distance, then the factory might ship to that country with a map which has a flat spot at or below the specified RPM range so that things don't get too noisy until higher up in the range. I believe this is the same for emissions, where EFI maps are designed to meet the local regulation, rather than produce the best outcome for the rider. It is in these instances that the Power commander will give the user a much better outcome because it will remove any flat spots in the graph without consideration for noise or emissions. The power commander will also deal much better with engine or exhaust modifications.

If you're a bike modifier, or you really want to stretch the performance of the bike right out to the extremes, then the PC might be for you, but if you feel it isn't running quite right for you, and just needs a bit of a push in the right direction, then you'd probably get the result you want with one of the booster plug alternatives.

 

[Tinken]

the Power commander will completely remap the EFI without any regard for the stock factory map.

You get two, separate, completely independent maps which can be switched on the fly. Furthermore, a separate, independant map can be set up for each gear change as well.

 

[kjackbrown]

Think of it this way, you go to the bar one night with your friends and you meet a girl that is TOTALLY into you....

-Scenario #1 (aka booster plug-ish options):
You take her back to your place...things get heated...and just as YOU THINK your about to do the dirty deed, she tells you she needs $100 cash or else her "manager" outside your door is going to beat the hell out of you. Sure, you pay the pricebut you only get some brief satisfaction (sweet spots of the rpm range that these Bandaid mods address).

-Scenario #2 (Power Commander V..with Auto Tune)
You take her back to your place and she does things to every inch of your body (entire rpm range) that you only read about in certain publications! The next morning you wake up to an incredible breakfast (anything involving bacon) already prepared followed by an entire weekend of those unmentionables we just discussed. NOW HERE COMES THE INTERESTING PART(Auto Tune)......3 months later you get it in your head (paid off the credit card that you bought the PCV and AT with) that it would be a GREAT idea to bring your INCREDIBLY hot twin neighbors (think intake mod and exhaust mod) into the mix. So........after barely alluding to the idea over dinner in a nice restaurant she shouts out "Hey....I soooooooooooooooooooooo want to have a foursome with you and your twin neighbors****************************************!!!” Fast forward a year later and you’re living the life even Hugh Hefner would be envious of. Every month or so there is a new experience (mod) to your love life with her (Auto Tune/TR650) keeps adjusting your relationship to give you the most satisfying experience ever.

Jusy sayin

 

[Allen]

Jusy sayin

This should be the homepage of the PC website...

It seems like the PCV without autotune would be for those few individuals who would only do the PCV mod and no exhaust intake etc. Is this right? It is just strange to me that they would sell them separate.

 

[kjackbrown]

It seems like the PCV without autotune would be for those few individuals who would only do the PCV mod and no exhaust intake etc. Is this right? It is just strange to me that they would sell them separate.

You are correct. Also, dyno time to custom tune the PCV can be expensive...and if you are modding your ride often, it can get uber expensive! Some people just want to fix the lean spots and only require the PCV and some are out to maximize the performance of their machines.

 

[Tinken]

Using the PCV by itself is more a racing application where you have maps set for different altitudes. However, the auto-tune will only function in map setting #1, #2 is a stationary map.

 

[Dyno Dan]

To be honest I dont believe that is a KTM 690 being taken into account. Rather earlier 640...

KTM 690 is evaluated here - blue is stock (60 HP) and red is 'open-muffler' (67 HP).

Good catch, I looked at the date the "690 SMC" run was made, and it was in 2008. As I'm sure you know the 2008-2011 KTM 690's were 654cc's, while the '12+ was truly 690cc........from what I can gather. Also be aware that your graph shows figures using the "STD" correction factor, as opposed to the "SAE" correction factor. This results in a 1.2% increase over SAE numbers.

 

[Dyno Dan]

True. A single bike on a dyno can be throttled to tell lies in both directions. When you have a 2 or more bike comparison, at least you have an assumed base measure. 5 hp difference is virtually nothing in disjointed runs (humidity, operator, heat, rear tire worn-out, time of day, motivation, ...). For the KTM alone analysis, an 8 hp difference, you would however suspect a tuning change is required for the near 70 hp run on the open drag pipe run. Both of those runs on the same bike did not indicate the high rpm cam (which is usually reserved for drag racing exclusively), as indicated by the first comparison runs. So something is different for sure, but I'm not quite sure with the limited runs available. I would lean towards the multiple comparison runs versus a single marketing run.

Does anyone know how and if the cams were changed on the Husky 650's top end from the stock G650? There was already a nice Rotax cam on a stock G650. There were no increased deviations in mid or top end (where oem's traditionally like to 'juice' the hp at redline), so it is a reliable cam version regardelss (although a "high lift, short duration midrange cam" would be a hoot (!), like Web cam's for Bombardier DS650 - pre-2000 BMW F650 engine with carbs run from 2000 until 2008 for atv's.) A cam is probably not needed on the Husky 650 with the top end work already done.

Speaking of multiple runs on a 2008 KTM 690SMC......enjoy.

 

[kjackbrown]

Im so anxious to hear these mufflers...I'm shaking!

 

[Leo Fisher]

Thanks for the info and can't wait to see the TR in its new guise!

 

[Motosportz]

Im so anxious to hear these mufflers...I'm shaking!

Me too I am at a race this weekend but will be diving in the week after both on my 511 and TR650. Lots of stuff to mess with. Reports coming.

 

[Tinken]

Which setup did Dynojet base their base map on, stock?

 

[kjackbrown]

Which setup did Dynojet base their base map on, stock?

So far they only had a totally stock bike to play with. As we mod our bikes, we can share the new maps (tuned either by dyno's or Autotune). My PCV arrives today and should be able to order the A/T in a few weeks.

The only "performace"-ish mod I have done to my TR so far is removed the factory spark arresters (replaced with MUCH larger o.d. units) to get rid of the exhaust tweet and free up some flow. If anyone is interested, I can share the new map that the A/T creates.

 

[Tinken]

Remember that the autotune only tweaks within a 20% range of the original map.

 

[kjackbrown]

Remember that the autotune only tweaks within a 20% range of the original map.

I thought that was true up until you saved the tweek to the PCV...then the A/T can go another 20% if needed (over and over).

 

[Dyno Dan]

I thought that was true up until you saved the tweek to the PCV...then the A/T can go another 20% if needed (over and over).

Correct, you can commit the trim tables that the PCV / AT generates to your base map, and then take advantage of the +/-20% adjustment over and over. I like to tighten up the +/- to something around 5% once a solid base map is developed.

 

[kjackbrown]

 

[Coffee]

General 'heads up': When I last worked on PCV/AT stuff, I recall the % of control the AT had was set at 20%, but that number could be changed to something smaller or larger.

I set that adjustment to something larger (do not recall exact number) and when a test rider took a ride, he rode it off the trail, and the bike continued to run even though it was not right side up....

Well the AT did it's job, and adjusted things so the bike barely ran in the right side up position. It actually took a while to start.

Moral of the story: be careful how large you set that parameter (if it can still be adjusted).

 

[kjackbrown]

General 'heads up': When I last worked on PCV/AT stuff, I recall the % of control the AT had was set at 20%, but that number could be changed to something smaller or larger.

I set that adjustment to something larger (do not recall exact number) and when a test rider took a ride, he rode it off the trail, and the bike continued to run even though it was not right side up....

Well the AT did it's job, and adjusted things so the bike barely ran in the right side up position. It actually took a while to start.

Moral of the story: be careful how large you set that parameter (if it can still be adjusted).

Thanks for the heads up C

The PCV is configured to only allow the software to trim +/- 20% until you manually accept the trims. You can alter these limits in the Auto Tune configuration. The more the PCV learns the lower you can make this value. By lowering this value it will work as a safety net so if something should go wrong in the unit or bike it will not cause the bike to run poorly.

 

[kjackbrown]

Just got a text from UPS...my PCV was delivered to my house just now!