Poll - 449/511 EFI butterfly removal

[Dangermouse449]

I do not think Zip-ty or tinken is ever misleading anyone. The way I made my bike work with the factory throttle body setup was to follow TINKENS guidelines. I had NO MORE FLAMEOUTS!

In the dirt several rides with no stalls or issues. This was with fmf open powercore 4 and a very vented airbox!

I did race map 2, power commander and auto tuner and the bike worked great! As it was suggested it would. I could have rode like that forever it worked fantastically actually with lots of power.

WITHOUT EVER TOUCHING THE ENGINE/THROTTLE BODY.

GREAT IN THE DIRT! I AM A DIRT NOOB AND THE SMOOTHE POWER AND CTS MEANS I COULD TRACTOR UP ANY HILL WITHOUT ANY SKILL. EVERYONE SAID IT WAS "DIAL A RIDE" VERY VERY VERY EASY TO RIDE!

But if you look at the threads I have posted you will see me asking questions about removing the butterfly because when coming out of corners geared up or lazily I would hit the throttle wide open and the bike would not react quickly. First I thought slipping clutch, then I thought torque limiter, but I quickly realized it was the throttle body opening slowly (not good for supermoto where you need snap to clear a jump or increase engine rpm's fast). Then dangermouse posted his thread whilst I had my bike apart which convinced me that my thinking was 100% spot on.

I took the butterfly off and the bike became instantly much much more responsive, and the feeling I had before is gone. This is what the butterfly did for me. Also I believe now I can lower the engine idle slightly without stall on deceleration or with instant blips of the throttle.

Very good for supermoto and solved my lack of engine response problem.

Also the iridium plug is a cheap and very good upgrade. It works and doesn't foul as easily. It is a common thing in the bike world to change the plug. Also the factory plug is quite shrouded due to the 2 strap layout. So I am sure that also helps to propagate a nice flame.


All in all there should be absolutely no resentment to Tinken or zip-ty as they told us how to make it work without removing anything from the bike. Yes this has improved it further, but it was not widely tested here until recently.


Also just because you have a catch can does not make it a breather, if you push enough oil up then the vaccum from the airbox will suck the oil in. When you return to idle or turn off the bike the oil will drain back down. The proper way is to not only have vaccum but also an additional return line so when running very high rpm you do not end up pushing oil up faster than it can return. Also when you drop the bike it has a chance to return to drain before it sucks it into the airbox. (ask me how I know).

Also if you look at tinkens drawing you can see why it is good to relocate the breather from the crank to valve cover. This is good as hopefully there is enough airspace for the return air from the piston to find its way up through the cam chain area instead of going through the torque limiter. It makes sense if you look at it.

I have not, and am not saying anywhere that these above know fixes don't work.
Clearly they do. The information is good info, just that it costs money to do.
There are 5 of us in my family, I have a mortgage, two cars etc etc. Money is important to me.

What I tried to & succeeded in doing was to not have to purchase additional stuff to add to a bike that I was at wits end with.
I did not want to spend money on a bike that I really was considering selling or burning!! (I truthfully hated it that much)

The mods I did removed some parts, yes!
I didn't have to add anything to it, & if it didn't work out I could return it to stock.
The mods were FREE & they worked for me with no side affects.

I now really love the bike, it has NO fueling issues & can be enjoyed as much as it should have from new.

 

[huskyboy410]

Wow this all suxs.. I just come back to ch to read about mods. Seriously we should all be working together as we share the same interests.

All the info here is gold all the input and testing and results any company would pay thousands for, use it guys and show some love.

 

[Motosportz]

Wow this all suxs.. I just come back to ch to read about mods. Seriously we should all be working together as we share the same interests.

All the info here is gold all the input and testing and results any company would pay thousands for, use it guys and show some love.

Exactly. Both are right IMHO. The bike is lean, very lean completely stock. There are solutions for that. The butterfly removal does work as proved by 15 plus guys so far. This is excellent info on all fronts condensed into one great forum. The shit slinging and finger pointing needs to be disregarded, not posted and left alone. All that will do is drive good knowledgeable people out. Some people come across arrogant or that their idea is the only good idea. This is not the case, ever. Its the collective information and data points that make these forums so fruitful.

Just post what you did and you results and leave it at that. You dont want to try one mod or another don't. You want to try them all have at it. It's your bike, do what you like, post YOUR results and leave it at that. Then others can read it, decide it it makes sense for them and do it or not do it. What I don't want to see is any contributors feeling pushed out, then we all loose. Understand that peoples on line persona can be much different than who they really are. Its hard to feel what a person is really all about. Post info, use info, move on.

 

[rajobigguy]

All that I can say for right now is PLAY NICE. at this point I'm tempted to just delete this entire thread which would be ashame because there is good info here but the attitude is unacceptable. I would like to see some people go back and edit their own work but if that doesn't happen I'll have to do it and since I don't have a lot of time on my hands right now that means hitting the delete button.

 

[Dangermouse449]

Wow this all suxs.. I just come back to ch to read about mods. Seriously we should all be working together as we share the same interests.

All the info here is gold all the input and testing and results any company would pay thousands for, use it guys and show some love.

Fair call!

Mod the bikes how you want, at the end of the day, the choice lies with the bike owner.

 

[Motosportz]

at this point I'm tempted to just delete this entire thread

NO!

 

[Dangermouse449]

I have sent a personal note to Tinken saying I am sorry for loosing my cool, it isn't how I like to operate.

I don't care one way or the other about the thread.
I am enjoying my bike how it is to ride, having made the changes.
But it does seem fairly clear that there is some gain from removing the butterfly, 15 to 0 at this stage.
(The reason I thought other owners might like to try it & see for themselves with my original thread).

As I am new to forums in general, I'll be doing my best not to over-think any comments from here on in.

Cheers, D

 

[James Patton]

I have followed Tinkens advice since getting my 511, he has been spot on, and my flameouts were cured.
I don't mind farkling/spending a little money to make it mine. A properly tuned PCV will make it right,
I was in there playing and removed it (the second butterfly) I like the result. Mr. Tinken is probably the
most knowledgeable guy anywhere on these bikes (others too). I, like so many others owe him loads
for his time and expertise. Thanks Tinken!

 

[Dangermouse449]

All that I can say for right now is PLAY NICE. at this point I'm tempted to just delete this entire thread which would be ashame because there is good info here but the attitude is unacceptable. I would like to see some people go back and edit their own work but if that doesn't happen I'll have to do it and since I don't have a lot of time on my hands right now that means hitting the delete button.

I have edited or removed anything not based on fact from my posts & likely to wind people up.

Fact - without the butterfly, the bike rips. It runs fine.

 

[9880sts]

looks like mine is removed already.
Well my bikes rips too.. plain and simple. Fact

 

[Luke87-SMR]

my opinion: All info, test and other is gold.. Share our passion and show some love.

About the butterfly: I removed 3 days ago.
The bike is better, not much more then before.With this change, you are not earning hp. It change just a little engine response / accelerator.

Today I'll go on track to Borgo Ticino - Pista Azzurra (Italy, famous race track for supermotard).
I'll let you know.

 

[9880sts]

my opinion: All info, test and other is gold.. Share our passion and show some love.

About the butterfly: I removed 3 days ago.
The bike is better, not much more then before.With this change, you are not earning hp. It change just a little engine response / accelerator.

Today I'll go on track to Borgo Ticino - Pista Azzurra (Italy, famous race track for supermotard).
I'll let you know.

great... let us know how it goes. it wont have more hp, maybe 1-3 more if at all. But the bike is much snappier (responsive ) on the throttle.

Don't forget to Vote in the Poll.

 

[huskyboy410]

Update... I had ecu updated to akro map it's a spare ecu I have. (Kept the original as is) did a 70km ride today and the bike ran with no problems at all. Although it did seem to drop the snappy throttle and had not much mid range at all. I did around 50 km like this and hated it... why I still don't know??? Maybe it wasn't mapped properly...I'm not sure. So when we stopped I took the original ecu out of my backpack plugged her in and WHAM!!! BACK TO SNAP POWER ALL THE WAY THROUGH.... so last 15 20 km was amazing the bike came back to life.

I love this machine now and will start getting my motard setup on the go asap.

Ps: glad to see we are all getting along now.

 

[Motosportz]

Mine sure feels like it has more power low to mid with the BF removed.

 

[Thrasher]

I just SMOKED my buddies Husaberg 650! I think I'm getting like, 75 rear wheel horsepower! It runs more like a 750 than a 500! AND, it as smooth as melted butter. Not a lump anywhere.


...and it's quite!



.... all previous statements are emotional representations of real-life subjective events and/or desires.....

 

[Huskynoobee]

I'm going to give it a whirl. Like Kelly sez, it's 100% reversable, unlike a vasectomy.... Having a locked ECU makes adding Map3 impossible. The thought of adding a secondary fueler and another single point of failure didn't thrill me, but then again I didn't have the severe, over the bars flameouts either. I just enjoyed it until I was fortunate enough to get my JD from a fellow CH mem for the best price ever.

I've been fiddling with it but the thing that I can't adjust out is the compression stall-like starting that resets the dash. Looking forward to seeing if that becomes a side benefit from removing the butterfly.

Sure, if money was no object (or I was single) I'd have had Tinken and Ty give the motor a proper "rogering", a PCV, and a Burleson map on top pretty please. But I'm doing things the slow and cheap way, and this is surely a cheap fix if I ever heard of one.

One thing we should all remember. We have another ECU that sits between our ears which is directly connected to the throttle control wrist mechanism. This ECU is a learning computer that has been carefully tuned to meet the needs of the rider's skills and abilities based on personal experience. This variable is hard to quantify in that your internal ECU has a unique map and no gadget can ever compensate for that.

 

[Motosportz]

Thrasher - I know how you feel. I can hardly wait til the next trip to the dez to explode burms and toss 40 foot roosters. FUN! Will take a Gopro.

 

[Motosportz]

I'm going to give it a whirl. Like Kelly sez, it's 100% reversable, unlike a vasectomy.... Having a locked ECU makes adding Map3 impossible. The thought of adding a secondary fueler and another single point of failure didn't thrill me, but then again I didn't have the severe, over the bars flameouts either. I just enjoyed it until I was fortunate enough to get my JD from a fellow CH mem for the best price ever.

I've been fiddling with it but the thing that I can't adjust out is the compression stall-like starting that resets the dash. Looking forward to seeing if that becomes a side benefit from removing the butterfly.

Sure, if money was no object (or I was single) I'd have had Tinken and Ty give the motor a proper "rogering", a PCV, and a Burleson map on top pretty please. But I'm doing things the slow and cheap way, and this is surely a cheap fix if I ever heard of one.

One thing we should all remember. We have another ECU that sits between our ears which is directly connected to the throttle control wrist mechanism. This ECU is a learning computer that has been carefully tuned to meet the needs of the rider's skills and abilities based on personal experience. This variable is hard to quantify in that your internal ECU has a unique map and no gadget can ever compensate for that.

This mod is good but talking with a few people I think it is good to have a JD or PCV to fine tune it afterwards. Mine ran good just removing it but already had map3 and the JD richened up slightly. It ran better after I fine tuned it some more eliminating the slight bog when grabbing huge handfulls of throttle. In theory the BF removal should make it leaner as it flows more and allows bigger throttle openings.

 

[Dangermouse449]

I'm going to give it a whirl. Like Kelly sez, it's 100% reversable, unlike a vasectomy.... Having a locked ECU makes adding Map3 impossible. The thought of adding a secondary fueler and another single point of failure didn't thrill me, but then again I didn't have the severe, over the bars flameouts either. I just enjoyed it until I was fortunate enough to get my JD from a fellow CH mem for the best price ever.

I've been fiddling with it but the thing that I can't adjust out is the compression stall-like starting that resets the dash. Looking forward to seeing if that becomes a side benefit from removing the butterfly.

Sure, if money was no object (or I was single) I'd have had Tinken and Ty give the motor a proper "rogering", a PCV, and a Burleson map on top pretty please. But I'm doing things the slow and cheap way, and this is surely a cheap fix if I ever heard of one.

One thing we should all remember. We have another ECU that sits between our ears which is directly connected to the throttle control wrist mechanism. This ECU is a learning computer that has been carefully tuned to meet the needs of the rider's skills and abilities based on personal experience. This variable is hard to quantify in that your internal ECU has a unique map and no gadget can ever compensate for that.

The thing that fixed my 2011 compression stall dash resets, I have detailed in the original post.
Have a quick read, but in short, for this bike, just the fitment of a Lithium battery with the increase in cranking amps that bring has fixed it 100%.
Since the battery, I have not lost dash data in 5 or 6 full rides, clock & odo all sweet.

I have some other less elegant (than piggyback) but cheaper solutions for fueling I'm working on for the budget guys like myself.
I will post them up when I'm sure they work, as with the other things.

I'm with you on the 'BTE-ECU' (between the ears ECU ) there.
My own one needs calibrating at times, I have an old bad habit of 'blipping' the throttle before cracking it open, on an unmodified TE449, this will often bring about a flame-out.
(For me it is an old habit I developed driving a very heavily modified Rally car with big cam & carbs around on the road. I used to blip the throttle to bring the revs up before loading it with the clutch to make sure the engine was awake. I drove that car for 5 or 6 years, sold it years ago & still can't shake the habit).....

 

[Radar]

I'm going to give it a whirl. Like Kelly sez, it's 100% reversable, unlike a vasectomy.... Having a locked ECU makes adding Map3 impossible. The thought of adding a secondary fueler and another single point of failure didn't thrill me, but then again I didn't have the severe, over the bars flameouts either. I just enjoyed it until I was fortunate enough to get my JD from a fellow CH mem for the best price ever.

I've been fiddling with it but the thing that I can't adjust out is the compression stall-like starting that resets the dash. Looking forward to seeing if that becomes a side benefit from removing the butterfly.

Sure, if money was no object (or I was single) I'd have had Tinken and Ty give the motor a proper "rogering", a PCV, and a Burleson map on top pretty please. But I'm doing things the slow and cheap way, and this is surely a cheap fix if I ever heard of one.

One thing we should all remember. We have another ECU that sits between our ears which is directly connected to the throttle control wrist mechanism. This ECU is a learning computer that has been carefully tuned to meet the needs of the rider's skills and abilities based on personal experience. This variable is hard to quantify in that your internal ECU has a unique map and no gadget can ever compensate for that.