Poll - 449/511 EFI butterfly removal

[R. Stephen]

What configuration are you running? Any piggyback EFI hardware?

Running 2012 TXC511 removed upper butterfly, TC air box lid with modified snorkel, Full Ti FMF with mega bomb header, PCV w/ autotune, and PC quick shifter, 0w40 and oil breather, and Suter slipper clutch, tons of chassis mods for supermoto, about 15hr on the bike.

 

[Dangermouse449]

DM had to tweak his TPS to increase his throttle % higher into the oem mapping where it is richer.

Yes Dangermouse did do that.

The ORIGINAL thread was for three things I did together to stop a raft of ongoing tuning faults with the original bike.
Please re-read the post as I went into some detail there about it.
It wasn't a single blanket claim that the butterfly was a magic cure.
I haven't got a way of measuring the TPS voltages as yet (Still waiting on my new plugs to make a break-out)
That said, the adjustment was microscopic, I'm talking so little, it moves more when you torque the screw up.
All I did was moved the TPS until the idle smoothed out, barely any at all.

I don't want another forum argument, but I have posted all of what I did, & that works on my bike.

 

[Dangermouse449]

Don't have access to HST near me either, 40 mins away at a dealer, but thanks.
Making a test lead set as soon as parts arrive & it may all become clearer then.

 

[Dangermouse449]

Also, resetting the TPS signal to read zero wasn't what I trying to. Moving without resetting the new position figure as zero was what I was what I did, it helped my idle mixture and smooth the 'lumpy cam' idle it had.
It has been reset to base so many times I've lost count, but never helped idle.
I'll post up the voltage that worked for me when I have it.

 

[nonferrous]

I need another 150 rpm on idle - how can I get this without winding out the air bypass screw another 2 turns ?

 

[Cosmokenney]

Just did mine.
Here's what I've got. I put a used JD on my bike before last weeks ride. After that, the bike was running really rough. Seems like the JD and my [alleged] Map 3, make the bike run too rich. The JD added a little more power and bumping the fuel pump feature up really helped with the bogging I had at the bottom end.

After removing the butterfly, before this past sunday's ride, I can feel more bottom end. The front end just lifts off the ground where I used to have to go to great lengths to get her up. If the front doesn't come up, it's because the rear wheel spinning like crazy (still have the stock Michelins).

The bike ran better all day this weekend. I still got one flame out when I was creeping around the little trials area where I was riding. I'm sure the flame outs I'm getting are due to engine temperature. They almost went away after I wrapped the header and put heat shield tape on the lower tank (my gas was boiling). But when you are creeping around at almost idle in first, the bike just can't flush away the heat. That's when I get all of my flame outs.

Just to clarify my post. After removing the butterfly, I'm pretty happy. The throttle is very responsive. It has added a little overall to the power that the JD provided. And the in three hours of normal trail riding I had zero flame outs. Again the only one was at the end of the day when I was playing in first in the trials area.

 

[huskylove]

I need another 150 rpm on idle - how can I get this without winding out the air bypass screw another 2 turns ?

From looking at the throttle body there seems to be an idle adjustment that is set at the factory. The bypass screw is letting more air in without moving the throttle plate. This is important to not throw off the TPS.

 

[Dangermouse449]

From looking at the throttle body there seems to be an idle adjustment that is set at the factory. The bypass screw is letting more air in without moving the throttle plate. This is important to not throw off the TPS.

I would not recommend adjusting the factory butterfly stop without being connected to the HST at a dealer.
I had the same issue where I couldn't get a sensible idle speed near the recommended turns of the brass idle bypass crew. Small movements of the shaft make changes to the tps readings. The speed, vaccum readings & tips should all be set off each other.
It is not easy to return the stop position to exactly where it was if needed.

I did find, that I could smooth out my tough idle by tiny, tiny movements of the bottom tps.
However, it isn't a recommended w/shop procedure.

 

[Dangermouse449]

Thank you. I wanted to make it clear that the butterfly was not a magic cure

It isn't a magic cure, but takes the engine from farm bike to enduro bike!

 

[huskydude59]

i have a 2013 model 511. it had the flat throttle issue at 200klms in. Then at around 1500 klms it chucked a wobbly. wouldnt throttle on, kept stalling. Took to the shop, they said i had water in the electronics... told me dont wash under the seat...****************************************! took it out the next few rides did it again. went back to the car park and ripped out top butterfly. bike went from docile to spastic top end. did not miss a beat all day apart from stalls. it seems pretty clear to me this throttle idea is a great concept poorly implimented at design. love my bike.

 

[domrvt]

I would not recommend adjusting the factory butterfly stop without being connected to the HST at a dealer.
I had the same issue where I couldn't get a sensible idle speed near the recommended turns of the brass idle bypass crew. Small movements of the shaft make changes to the tps readings. The speed, vaccum readings & tips should all be set off each other.
It is not easy to return the stop position to exactly where it was if needed.

I did find, that I could smooth out my tough idle by tiny, tiny movements of the bottom tps.
However, it isn't a recommended w/shop procedure.

I've got an old version of the Owner's Manual which describes a method of adjusting idle other than the brass screw, see below. Is this what you're referring to? Interestingly, they changed the manual to show idle adjustment via the brass screw in newer editions.

 

[huskylove]

Exactly what I was suggesting. I do not recommend that because there is no way to see if the tps resets to 0 properly.

I would just use the brass screw to allow more air in. This will unfortunately modify the AFR at idle. Thus you will go lean, and without PCV or jd tuner to richen her up it wont be optimal.

That said my bike starts and idles even with an afr of 14.5-15 to 1. Amazingly. It sometimes takes 2 hits like that. When I added fuel to get a hot idle afr of 13.8 it starts first fire cold.

I have my idle actually lowered down to 1750-1800 from 1800-2000. The 1800-2000 helped to cure flamouts, but is no longer necessary.

 

[Teambowles]

I have both 2013 te 449 and 511. 511 was flaming out near idle so I matched the big brass screw to the 449. On the 449 it was 5 1/4 turns out from all the way in. Also did tps reset when I adjusted the screw. Since matching the 511 to 449 I've had zero issues with flameouts. Both bikes have same mods, fmf, smog junk off, map 3 and jumper in. I did put the quiet core back in on the 511 for more back pressure. I was thinking of doing butterfly removal on 511 but have decided since both bikes are running awesome I'm not gonna touch a thing. Bikes have about 1500 miles on them and been using the mobile 0W40 since 300 miles. I run both with 1150cc of oil and just pulled air filters, no engine oil on either filter and filter still looked brand new. Both bikes are SM so street riding only. I haven't considered running any piggyback programmers, plenty of power even with stock front sprocket and 40 rear.

 

[Dangermouse449]

I've got an old version of the Owner's Manual which describes a method of adjusting idle other than the brass screw, see below. Is this what you're referring to? Interestingly, they changed the manual to show idle adjustment via the brass screw in newer editions.

Interesting. Seems to contradict itself, ADUST stop till at
1900 rpm, then set screw/knob to idle at same revs?!?
Maybe that's why that part is gone.
I did adjust mine at one point, but returned it to position.
I was trying to change my flame outs, didn't help me at the time, but physically moving the tips at the same time may.
Both not recommended without some way of checking

 

[domrvt]

Sorry For the confusion, these are two version of the same page in the manual. The left is the older one, the right is newer. So it's one or the other.

 

[Dangermouse449]

I see, I'm reading on a phone screen :-)

 

[Dangermouse449]

Sure it will. Several here do not have PCV and no BF. I don't have PCV but have JD and map3 starts and runs great. Dangermounse has no piggyback at all and he started this BF removal.

Gents, please refer to exactly how a bike runs without pcv, just posted videos on the original thread.

 

[Dangermouse449]

Kelly was responding to my question which includes your tps adjustment.

Yes, noted.

 

[9880sts]

Is it possible to for the Guys who have Voted that they are going to Remove the Butterfly to Re - vote that they have done it ??
I have seen a few GUys that they have removed the Butterfly and haven't put there Vote to the first Choice.
I think we should get that right again.

Thanks.

 

[Luke87-SMR]

Is it possible to for the Guys who have Voted that they are going to Remove the Butterfly to Re - vote that they have done it ??
I have seen a few GUys that they have removed the Butterfly and haven't put there Vote to the first Choice.
I think we should get that right again.

Thanks.

how can i do?