Poll - 449/511 EFI butterfly removal

[9880sts]

how can i do?

I don't know yet.... Just waiting for a answer !!

 

[9880sts]

M

how can i do?

Motosportz is the man to talk too..

 

[Thrasher]

I was thinking of doing butterfly removal on 511 but have decided since both bikes are running awesome I'm not gonna touch a thing.

I hate people who are satisfied with what they have!

 

[Teambowles]

I hate people who are satisfied with what they have!

LOL I feel so guilty too...

 

[batterup]

I removed the butterfly. Have a PCV and FMF. Seems to rev slightly quicker. Still got it to flame out on occasion if I cracked the throttle several time in a row.

 

[Thrasher]

Still got it to flame out on occasion if I cracked the throttle several time in a row.

Play with the PCV. I removed my butterfly but kept the low RPM 0-5% throttle setting quite rich. I also retarded the timing at idle and 1500 - 1750 RPM. This was guess work for me, but as I mentally worked through what a flame out was in super-slow-motion (mentally), retarding the timing at those RPM's seemed a reasonable theory. With a little retarded timing and richer low RPM settings at those very low RPMs I have NO FLAMEOUTS and I enjoy the significantly improved throttle response at 2000+ RPMs.


http://www.cafehusky.com/threads/44...ng-with-pcv-at-low-rpm-flameout-theory.41827/

 

[N4544D]

2013 TE449 with Akro and Map 3; otherwise stock. Pulled FBW butterfly. That intake boot was a pain to get back on. A side note, my primary butterfly was fairly dirty with oily residue (my FBW butterfly was clean), any cause for concern?

Previously, I didn't have too many complaints with the bike. It didn't seem to lug as well as other big bores and seemed to stall easier, but I figured that was the nature of the engine. So I geared down to 13T and rode it as is. I never had dead throttle or hanging throttle, thank god, and would only occasionally stall on a big log or rock step up, usually when the back tire hit the obstacle. Initially I stalled the bike quite a bit, but either the engine loosened up, or as Dangermouse has alluded to, I learned to carry more speed/clutch to compensate Also, I never had any complaints about engine braking (or lack thereof).

Post FBW butterfly removal first impressions are:
1) Unchanged starting cold and hot. I haven't had it very hot yet (with fan running), but will report back. At this point, I would say no difference than before. Previous cold starts required zero throttle and hot starts required a crack of throttle.
2) Unchanged idle. See Dangermouse's video; mine is a carbon copy to that (start up and idle). My air bypass is 2.5 rotations out, the same as before.
3) Throttle is definitely more responsive but still easily controllable. I didn't lose that nice linear powerband that I like from this engine but it has more snap to it now. I can rev it from 0% to 100% without popping or hesitation. Not sure I tried the quick rev before the mod, but I don't remember any bogging or flame out issues.
4) Lugging the bike at idle or below seems better. This is still subjective from riding around neighborhood, but I can idle around with some front brake on and it still keeps chugging away. Of course I can make it stall, but it seems to hang in that 1500-2000 RPM range better than before.

I have a 3 day ride ahead of me, so I will report back after this weekend. For me thus far, this appears to be a win win mod. Thanks for all that contributed across the globe!

UPDATE:
Starting was good all weekend. From cold to hot to hot hot and elevation changes from 3,000ft to 9500ft. The only difference is that I don't have to give it a crack of throttle to start when hot, which I guess is better. Idle was fine, no change. Throttle was more responsive, but nothing too crazy. Lugging, I think is better as well. The only negative is at start up I get a brief error message (E413 or something like that) and it quickly goes away. I didn't disconnect the battery when I took the butterfly off and I also inadvertadly moved the butterfly shaft as I had to put a decent amount of pressure to unscrew the screws.

My take is for bike that are running fine (which was mine) it's a slight improvement. For bikes with dead throttle, hanging idle, flameouts upon quick throttle blips, it could make a nice difference that appears to have no negative impacts.

 

[Dangermouse449]

I removed the butterfly. Have a PCV and FMF. Seems to rev slightly quicker. Still got it to flame out on occasion if I cracked the throttle several time in a row.

They do require a small amount of extra fuel, mine was by a minute physical adjustment of the TPS, if you have a PCV even easier.
There should be no flameouts when finished.

 

[Radar]

I removed the butterfly. Have a PCV and FMF. Seems to rev slightly quicker. Still got it to flame out on occasion if I cracked the throttle several time in a row.

Do you have a ground wire on your throttle body?

 

[Londin]

For who wanna race with SMR, rear stock wheel is 4.25". it's too restrictive. If you have possibility change with 5"

You cant get a propper race tyre to that size anyway.

 

[Londin]

Bike: SMR 449 (2011) - full track bike
Mods:
- full Ti Arrow exhaust
- TC air box lid
- Power-up plug
- JD Tune (will happily take a sponsor who will provide me with a PCV and auto-tune )
- 2nd butterfly has left the building.

The short before/after trip up the road and by just cracking the throttle i noticed two things

1) At cold it stalls if i cracked the throttle and was a bit hard to start again (only have the std battery)
2) When riding i looked like this Easy to feel the difference.

I have first race meeting next weekend so lets see how it goes.


BBBRRRRAAAAAPPPPPPP

 

[Isaac]

Hi ,there!! I'm thinking to do it, and already beggan to strip the bike. But i found a bit hard to take the airbox out...as i wrote in other post, I've been searching arond (in Spain), and nobody knows anything about this Map #3, so i decided to try this mod. My bike runs perfectly, (no stalling, flame-outs, or idle problems), but i just want that thinkg what everybody here says about this THROTTLE RESPONSE, wich i really miss in my bike. I don't say I don't like my bike, but I just want to feel that BANG! when u twist the throttle and you get almost an orgasm!! I will try to do it this week, and on weekend I will give my opinion.

Thanks for the Info!!

 

[Dangermouse449]

Hi ,there!! I'm thinking to do it, and already beggan to strip the bike. But i found a bit hard to take the airbox out...as i wrote in other post, I've been searching arond (in Spain), and nobody knows anything about this Map #3, so i decided to try this mod. My bike runs perfectly, (no stalling, flame-outs, or idle problems), but i just want that thinkg what everybody here says about this THROTTLE RESPONSE, wich i really miss in my bike. I don't say I don't like my bike, but I just want to feel that BANG! when u twist the throttle and you get almost an orgasm!! I will try to do it this week, and on weekend I will give my opinion.

Thanks for the Info!!

Ok, so the top section of the air box can stay in the bike. The rubber air trumpet down onto the throttle body isn't actually joined to the air box. You squeeze the edges in where it goes through the plastic air box & pull it forward into the air box. (When refitting it, you must make 100% sure it has a rubber lip either side of the plastic & is sealed all round)
Removing the butterfly is easy, be careful not to force the shaft to turn any more than needed to undo the screws. Good tip to use a magnetic screwdriver to grab the screws. Also before beginning, clean all dirt from around the area, you don't want that down the inlet.
Zipty can reflash your ecu by mail, but you will be without a bike for a while. You have better maps from new than my older model had, so maybe just moving the tips very slightly will help the lean bottom end maps. I did this with my engine warm & idling, moving the tips the smallest amount, barely noticeable, till the idle smoothed out.
This isn't recommended workshop practice & if you go too far, you may need help from a dealer to set it up again.
Very small adjustments is the key.

Hope this helps make it clearer.

 

[huskylove]

HEY dm AND tinken,

Video uploading as we speak....hopefully it works...

 

[Dangermouse449]

I've got an old version of the Owner's Manual which describes a method of adjusting idle other than the brass screw, see below. Is this what you're referring to? Interestingly, they changed the manual to show idle adjustment via the brass screw in newer editions.

I was just re-reading this section of the post.

Just a note on these pages from the manual, most older non-fbw car manuals used to give you a 'base' idle speed.
After you disabled & parked whatever auto idle system you had, you then had a figure to chase for a minimum unassisted idle speed by turning the mechanical throttle stop as in the page on the left.
Usually, after shutting the engine down, you could then measure the tps resistance to reset that (later cars electronically).
You then allowed the auto-idle system to lift it from there, which would then have enough range to cope with added loads, auto trans in gear, a/c and so on.

A base figure like that would have been handy from Husqvarna, & make the idle easier to adjust for everyone.

 

[Big Timmy]

I'm waiting to get the PCV with autotune, I ordered this morning. The full setup was $529.00 complete. that seems like alot for a dirt bike but thought nothing of it for my Harleys. I will also be removing my upper butterfly as well more than likely. I can also as an option, change to the TC throttle body installed on my TC engine in my G450X but am not sure if the plugs are the same on the BMW harness to use the TC TBI. I imagine they are the same by looking at photographs but I don't want to waste 199.00 of my money if they're not.

My BMW of course has the harness plug to operate the stepper motor to open the second flap so what would I do with it if I do install the TC TBI? On the stock one I could of course leave the harness plug attached and just remove the Butterfly flap and it wouldn't know the difference.

I'm sure I'll be alot more educated on this FI theory and tuning when it's all said and done. I'm just an old school guy who has never really fooled around with one of these on a single cylinder dirt bike. I have however used them on my Harleys with bigger cams, ported heads, freeflowing aircleaners, exhaust mods, etc. They were actually relatively simple installs though. It just seems I'll be doing more reading on here than actually tuning the PCV on my dirtbike. As there are a lot of points to consider for sure.

 

[huskylove]

Its harder with a single...if you mess up it wont run, or stalls/dies. Its quite hard to stall a harley/vtwin/inline 4 from improper fueling or ignition. It has considerably more momentum. A single if it missed a couple beats its done. Way more finicky.

 

[Dangermouse449]

I'm waiting to get the PCV with autotune, I ordered this morning. The full setup was $529.00 complete. that seems like alot for a dirt bike but thought nothing of it for my Harleys. I will also be removing my upper butterfly as well more than likely. I can also as an option, change to the TC throttle body installed on my TC engine in my G450X but am not sure if the plugs are the same on the BMW harness to use the TC TBI. I imagine they are the same by looking at photographs but I don't want to waste 199.00 of my money if they're not.

I was looking through the parts list at this only last night, Part numbers for the TC & TE throttle body sensors & injector are the same, if the BMW plugs fit the TE body, should fit TC also.

My BMW of course has the harness plug to operate the stepper motor to open the second flap so what would I do with it if I do install the TC TBI? On the stock one I could of course leave the harness plug attached and just remove the Butterfly flap and it wouldn't know the difference.

I'm sure I'll be alot more educated on this FI theory and tuning when it's all said and done. I'm just an old school guy who has never really fooled around with one of these on a single cylinder dirt bike. I have however used them on my Harleys with bigger cams, ported heads, freeflowing aircleaners, exhaust mods, etc. They were actually relatively simple installs though. It just seems I'll be doing more reading on here than actually tuning the PCV on my dirtbike. As there are a lot of points to consider for sure.

Tinken mentioned he & Ty were working on a 'work-around' for using a TC body on a TE system. I imagine a load circuit to mimic having the motor & TPS installed, not sure what they have in mind there.
While I can see, from a tuners view, a completely open TB like the TC one is would flow more air for that last 1 or 2 hp, I think that having only the bare shaft in the airstream is a simpler solution. The ecu is really unaware of the missing flap in all regards.

 

[Big Timmy]

Thats what I figured. Thats why I'm going with the Autotune right out of the gate. The nearest bike shop is about 130 miles away unless I want to go to the HondaZuki or Yamasaki dealer within 60 or so miles and run it on their dyno if they have one with a bunch of kids running it. So far I have always ran the bike with the powerup plug installed for the last 3 years. I've never taken it out and probably never will. I ride it judisiously when I have to in muddy or slippery situations as needed, if it gets away from me, Oh well. I like having to be careful of all of my Toys. If just anyone can get in it and drive it or on it and ride it. I probably don't want it. I like to have it handle great for me and who cares about anybody else, it being a dirt bike and all but I'd rather have it scare the hell out of me when I want it to also. Power is good, more power is better. power down settings suck. I'm not riding on grass and if I was I'd be escaping flying bullets or being chased. In that scenario I'd be on it full tilt anyway..I'm looking forward to wringing this thing out. Maybe I won"t want to buy a new bike after all.

 

[Thrasher]

While I can see, from a tuners view, a completely open TB like the TC one is would flow more air for that last 1 or 2 hp, I think that having only the bare shaft in the airstream is a simpler solution. The ecu is really unaware of the missing flap in all regards.

Ya, I don't understand that effort either. AND, I also could have sworn that, in a different thread, the TC's body was said/shown to be smaller than the TE's. Oh well.