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Hi everyone,
As you all know, Coffee (Dean) passed away a couple of years ago. I am Dean's ex-wife's husband and happen to have spent my career in tech. Over the years, I occasionally helped Dean with various tech issues.
When he passed, I worked with his kids to gather the necessary credentials to keep this site running. Since then (and for however long they worked with Coffee), Woodschick and Dirtdame have been maintaining the site and covering the costs. Without their hard work and financial support, CafeHusky would have been lost.
Over the past couple of weeks, I’ve been working to migrate the site to a free cloud compute instance so that Woodschick and Dirtdame no longer have to fund it. At the same time, I’ve updated the site to a current version of XenForo (the discussion software it runs on). The previous version was outdated and no longer supported.
Unfortunately, the new software version doesn’t support importing the old site’s styles, so for now, you’ll see the XenForo default style. This may change over time.
Coffee didn’t document the work he did on the site, so I’ve been digging through the old setup to understand how everything was running. There may still be things I’ve missed. One known issue is that email functionality is not yet working on the new site, but I hope to resolve this over time.
Thanks for your patience and support!
Poll - Torque limiter failures on 449/511
- Thread starter Motosportz
- Start date
ray_ray
Mini-Sponsor
Please forgive these bad questions ...but this is turning into a Herlings thing to me now ...What is this TL?
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You are insinuating that your TL is not slipping but it might slip and that is OK if it does slip ... ...What is actually being protected when slippage occurs?
Sounds a little bit like car insurance ... We all gotta have it but you can't use it very often...
From what I understand the Torque Limiter (TL) is there to protect the transmission. It eliminates impacts or a shock to the transmission during heavy loads. I'm a TE250 owner now so I stopped reading up on 449's and most of the time don't understand what they're talking about anyway lol
Tinken
Husqvarna
Pro Class
Oh man, you missed out on some good Mckay bashing Tinken in past and telling everyone I was crazy and the TL never slipped...
The torque limiter, the limited slip differential for the Kymco engine. It's a good thing and it keeps us from breaking. But adding more than double the load and without proper cooling, causes it to fail. There is no direct oil cooling for the device, only oil level and splashing makes contact with cool oil. The crankshaft compartment is another oiling hurdle. Modifications have been made to the engine in this area by Kymco, but there just isn't enough flow. Running the thinner oils really increases the survival of these components in this area.
After about 500 miles of racing we would loose either a rod bearing and/or the torque limiter. After removing the TL for inspection, the pressure disks had lost all of their tension and were bendable like soft aluminum. The combination of blow by gasses and friction from slipping - heats the disks well into the annealing range. If left unchecked, the torque limiter eventually looses it's head spacing and flies apart (such as Malcolm Smith's did at the NORRA2012).
http://www.cafehusky.com/threads/449-511-torque-limiter-failures.32792/
Quoted from Tinken:
Hmm... The original Kymco engine did not have a torque limiter. When Husqvarna modified the engine from a 5 speed to a 6 speed, they had to make the gears 22% narrower to make room for a 6th speed. This weakened the transmission and they were breaking gears. Wolfgang decided to add a limited slip clutch to the crossover gear as an afterthought. It fixed one problem and created another two. It ruined the breather vent and the thing flies apart when it wears out. The SMR's tend to wear them out faster than the trail riders, but I have sold them to both. It is a weak point on the engine.
Tinken
Husqvarna
Pro Class
With the addition of the correct oil quantity and storage height in the right clutch area, the torque limiter was able to run at cooler operating temperatures from increased oil splash. Thinner M1 0W40 flows almost twice the quantity at ambient temperatures, almost double at higher temperatures compared to the 10W50/60 oils that many people were using when I joined CafeHusky. And this is without internal oil mods such as the Zipty crankshaft gallery mod which nearly bullet proofs the Kymco engine from further failure.
Someday I'll be sending you guys a TC449 
Super5onic88
Husqvarna
AA Class
How often does Ty have these break after the mods? Obviously there is a servicable life on these, just wondering how long that life is extended after the mods.
When should I keep an eye out for mine breaking with these mods done from almost new?
When should I keep an eye out for mine breaking with these mods done from almost new?
Big Timmy
Husqvarna
Pro Class
How about a picture of one of those Torque Limiters that you have that everybody who ever owned a G450X or 449/511 has been waiting for that has the acid etched Newton Meter rating upwards of 320 NM like you were saying. Please. I'm aware that they did have a later revised part number for the later so called upgraded replacement Torque Limiters.
Like I've said and included pictures of myself. I've never seen one with that high of a number and they are all acid etched marked with the breakaway point right on them when assembled.
You can almost read the marking on one of them that is pictured in your boxes of them from your earlier posts on the torque Limiter failures. What gives? Picture please. So we all don't go to the dealers and buy these parts with low Newton Meter rating numbers. Like we all would have to accept what ever comes out of the box when buying a new one.
Like I've said and included pictures of myself. I've never seen one with that high of a number and they are all acid etched marked with the breakaway point right on them when assembled.
You can almost read the marking on one of them that is pictured in your boxes of them from your earlier posts on the torque Limiter failures. What gives? Picture please. So we all don't go to the dealers and buy these parts with low Newton Meter rating numbers. Like we all would have to accept what ever comes out of the box when buying a new one.
Tinken
Husqvarna
Pro Class
I'm not at work yet and I have no idea what is etched on the torque limiters. The numbers I quoted you were from measuring them myself in the torque limiter jig.
Tinken, to me it seems you want to design one that has similar, maybe slightly higher holding power to stock not way stronger because now your putting load back on the trans no? I think the goal should be to make it slightly stronger but last way longer. 
Lots of good info in this thread, thanks.
Lots of good info in this thread, thanks.
IF it is slipping constantly it will cause it to wear out like riding the clutch all the time.
If you get it to have a higher holding force, it will slip less, thus less heat generated and will last much longer.
Right? Also the specs on the torque limiters are definitely not etched on after being tested. These things do not cost nowhere near enough to warrant individual testing and marking like they are "hand aseembled". These parts are pumped out by the thousands and they likely batch test them. I would assume the number posted on the torque limiter is the minimum service rating of the torque limiter for the particular application that it is intended for.
Sound good? Or am I totally off base here.
If you get it to have a higher holding force, it will slip less, thus less heat generated and will last much longer.
Right? Also the specs on the torque limiters are definitely not etched on after being tested. These things do not cost nowhere near enough to warrant individual testing and marking like they are "hand aseembled". These parts are pumped out by the thousands and they likely batch test them. I would assume the number posted on the torque limiter is the minimum service rating of the torque limiter for the particular application that it is intended for.
Sound good? Or am I totally off base here.
I think they do measure and laser the results on them. Would only take a minute. As they all seem to have different numbers on them i would say thats the case.
Tinken
Husqvarna
Pro Class
My new design is not a limited slip clutch, contains no clutch plates and will not be effected by heat.Tinken, to me it seems you want to design one that has similar, maybe slightly higher holding power to stock not way stronger because now your putting load back on the trans no? I think the goal should be to make it slightly stronger but last way longer.
Lots of good info in this thread, thanks.
robertaccio
Husqvarna
Pro Class
Its a dampened compound flex/shock absorbing joint...like the back of a clutch basket.....................( I have no ffffing idea what it is)
robertaccio
Husqvarna
Pro Class
whoa.. tinken likes?? hmmmm
Dangermouse449
Husqvarna
Pro Class
Cush-drive off a DT175? 
Lol
Lol
Big Timmy
Husqvarna
Pro Class
I'd say the higher the torque limiters holding force, or breakaway setting. The more damage could be actually done to the transmission gears then with regard to shock to the 6 spd. boxes especially.
I'm not the Lone Ranger!
I have 5 spd gear boxes.
Tinkens "WR 511" does too.
I'm not the Lone Ranger!
I have 5 spd gear boxes.
Tinkens "WR 511" does too.