All 2st 125, 144, 165, 177 You do all know there is a 250 'off the shelf'

I just can't see the point of buying a 125, then putting a 144 kit on it then putting a 165 kit on it then putting a 177 kit on it. I hear people on here raving about how much better their 125 is with a 177 kit on it, well of course it is, its a different fish! You're only 70cc off a 250. Why not buy a 250 in the first place.

How long's it gonna be before I hear, '....my 250's much better with the 200 kit fitted'


.............or am I missing the point here?

You're missing the point.

I am wondering the same thing myself - but new frame , lighter weight and power which is just right - not too much for 95% of riders 90 % of the time would be some of reasons .

Your are most certainly... missing the point!

Norman Foley, looking at your list of bikes they go from 250cc to 610cc, or have you a secret?

With the popularity of these 'tiddlers' (but not that tiddly sometimes) I thought I was missing the point. Truly the only advantage I can see is the weight, but in my eyes that is out weighted by less (and peakier) power.

Someone needs to go for a ride on one of these little bikes. I rode a 250 for three years, then I tried a 125, then a 144. Small bikes are a load of fun. I wish I could ride my 250 like I do the 144.

I thought my '09 WR/WB165 was going down the road, so I deleted it from my list. The "bike gods" have willed it stays with me and become a 177! People would say to me, exactly what you have said and I bit the bait and bought a Husaberg TE250, as a bad knee made E-Start option nice. Great bike and I have other 250's now and a friend has my old '00 WR250.

I started riding an '02 WR125 in '06 and fell for the smaller nimble feel of the tiddler, that a 250 never has. I upgraded to an '09 and was happy. The factory 144 kit came out and had to try it, good stuff. Walt came out with the 165 and even better... power and torque galore, but didn't lose the tiddler feel. Now he has the 177 and I'm betting it will feel a little better, as it will rev out more and still have better torque than a 165 with a CR ignition... best of WR and CR worlds! My TE250 will still be my go to bike for the E-Start, but when I ride it the WR177 will make me smile a tink more!

The only disadvantage a 125 has to other bikes is the power curve. They nake enough power for all riders below pro caliber they just are hard to harness it all because of the narrow window of the power. Anything you do to widen the power curve pays huge dividends in making it easier to go faster and able to tackle whats ahead. Pulling longer and harder in each gear.

The advantages of a 125 are endless, less fatigue, less weight, less wear on consumables, less entry price, use less fuel, better(best) hhandling, best brakes, easiest to change lines and can go inside or outside of any other bike,

And they are the most fun and best sounding and are what bikes should be. Any arguments?

I've ridden a 150 KTM, it felt like a 250 with something wrong with it to me.

I was more fatigued when I rode a 150 KTM. Less weight - yes-, less wear and tear - no-, less entry price - not in the UK, less fuel - yes-, best handling and brakes - no- just less mass to stop giving you that impression, easiest to change lines - no- correct tyre choice will make any bike carve a new line, best fun and sounding - not when theres one behind me trying to get passed

Lol best handling and brakes, is a yes, easiest to change lines is another yes, most fun is subjective but is generallly a yes.
As far as a narrow powerband being your point you are missing THE point of the 144, 165 and 177 they widen that window considerably while adding power bottom to top.

Some people just arent cut out to actually riding a bike, which means carrying momentum, using the clutch and shifter to keep it in the meat and keeping the throttle pinned. Some folks prefer (or are just slow/unskilled) to ruin their momentum anytime they come to a turn, and need to rely on heaps of power to get going again before the next obstacle and the magic of riding a bike that actually turns and responds to input is lost on them. Im not saying this is you, im just saying.

I'm just the opposite. I wish they still made a 430 2-stroke but with porting aimed at low RPM torque.

It comes back to the HP vs weight thing ... That 250 is gonna do more in specific places engine wise, but that <165cc> bike is gonna have lots more than just a 125cc engine and the weight is still gonna be well below the 250 ...Less weight means should turn quicker and less weight to pick up if dropped ... And at the larger displacement, you've got power also ... There are vids out here somewhere showing the bike pulls well is not just a peaked out 125 screaming ..

The trade-off of power vs weight has always been an on-going battle between bikes of these sizes as long as I can remember ...

Just add a rekluse clutch to your bike and almost all your low RPM nightmares will go away

uhhhhh reach out to Eric Gorr, he has just that on an 01-04 Honda CR-250 transmission - its a 440

HR

I got off the WR250 that I loved and was sure I was going to miss and got on the Husky 125 bandwagon(I still had my WR360). Even though I had one of those 09's that wouldn't run well no matter what I tried the rest of the bike was so brilliant that I kept working and futzing with it. The 144 helped and the high compression 144 with the Suzuki needle or Keihin was great. I am old, fat, and slow so I wanted more but I didn't want the flywheel weight/heavier feel of the 250. The 165 absolutely solved the issue and I had no plans to ever go beyond that or try the stroker. Thanks to some prodding from one of the riders here, I agreed to build a stroker from the 165=177 for him. Tried it and now can't let it go. Have another in the works for him. I still think the 165 is fantastic and I don't need the extra but it sure is nice. I haven't had the opportunity to really put it through its paces to determine if it is worth all the extra investment but I can tell you that it still feels like a 125 handling/riding wise. That is the key and what all of us 125 guys love so much.

I will probably own another 250/300 simply so I can get the button and have a better bike for those areas where hp and torque are king(sand, open desert, etc). It will still be my second choice to the 165/177 for 90% of the riding in my area.

Sure sounds like you just need to find a WR360. I swore I would never sell mine but now I have two tiddlers instead.

You might could say you are turning that 125cc wildcat into a 'souped-up Wildcat' ...

I can say, regarding the prchase of the WR 125/144/165/177, I have 0% buyers remorse.