All 2st 125, 144, 165, 177 You do all know there is a 250 'off the shelf'

Sorry mate, where did I say the 200 was a beginners bike ? Read the posts carefully my friend, thats not what I said or believe. You and one other member have lost track of the topic this thread started.

I (thats me, my opinion) think that if you bought a 125 and you fitted a 144 kit to it, then that same rider fitted a 165 kit to the same bike and now that same rider is thinking about fitting a 177 kit to the same bike, then perhaps just maybe that rider (there may not be many) should consider a 250.

So, read carefully firfighter before jumping to conclusions or changing the topic.

Between the ninja video and the comment about a modern 500cc 2 stroke enduro bike, I'm in a happy place. Good thread.

Only other thing I have to add is on the KTM 200 comments.
My brother's 2004 200 SX ripped, a lot harder than my '08 KTM 200 XCW -- that is until I had Cycle Playground do some work for me. Then my '08 tipped harder than the 04 on mid to top, while still maintaining the original XCW lug off the bottom. Hard I known it would make as much difference as it did, without even changing displacement, I would have done it sooner.

Oh, and you can't put Shane Watts in the same boat as any of us here. He's the man, simple as that. I was at the school a few years back when he broke his back. First, what he was riding when the bike cut out and pile drove him into the ground was insane. Second, he then crawled out of that ravine up a hill that I had a hard time walking up, to a field to holler for help. He's as tough as they come, and his riding style definitely suits a small bore 2 stroke. But he's fast on anything.

What work did you have done to the XCW?

I think most have considered a 250 (I have), but would rather have a 125 on steroids.

I haven't seen this mentioned yet, but you are aware that the 125 and the 250/300 have completely different frame, right?

It's not just a matter of the same bike with different displacement. The newer 125's have the x-lite frame, which is (supposedly) one of the greatest handling bikes of all time. That, by itself, is one of the biggest motivators for having ones of the smaller bikes.

In addition, and this has been covered, a 125-to-165 and a 250-to-200 (or a 250) are very different in character, because the 125/144/165 retains the 125 bottom end, which is much smaller/lighter than the 250-300 bottom ends. Because of this, the gyro effect and rotational inertia are significantly reduced on the smaller motors, so (in theory) the bikes will change direction much quicker.

It's not really just a displacement/power question, there are a lot of other (not so) nuances to consider.

Head milled, cylinder ported, Keihin 36mm oval bored to 38.5mm -- retains the same low end snap of the 36, but above half throttle it really came to life. Less flywheel effect from a full Hinson clutch setup. It was a sweet engine and would scream past 450s in field transfers. It just had to be ridden a lot more aggressively, which was fine for more flowy trials, but get things technical and it just lost it's appeal after I rode my dad's WR300 a few times.


The 300 is just tame and easy to ride in comparison. The 360 was too much for racing enduros, but I'd still like to get a second 2010+ 250 frame and put a 360 in it strictly for trail riding.

My bad. I guess I read too much in to your comment that your friends with 200's being new to the sport.

Raced a WR250 off road for a few seasons and It was a great bike. I now have a 165 and love it. Most fun on a dirtbike ever The 165 gives up some to the 250 as far as lugging up hills and being super smooth, but I can put the 165 anywhere I want. Turns fantastic! Not a 250 nor do I want it to be. Totally different animals!

Another factor that has played in recently, is the Husky 125 has been delivered, new in the crate, with a free 144 cylinder/head/powervalve setup. So, unless you are racing a 125 specific class, why wouldn't you put the 144 kit on it? Then, what to do with the 125 setup......a great option is having it made into a 165 (not possible with any other brand, period). So now you have the 165 for still less than any other brand 250 would cost you, and you love it. Now, bottom ends don't last forever (trust me on this!). Motor is coming apart anyway, another option is to have it stroked, while the crank is already apart, now it's a 177, but still has the same basic gyro effect (flickabilityalicious!) as the 125. Are you starting to understand the attraction and how this motor has progressed?

Who is building the 177???? Sounds interesting! I no longer race but my son does and we consistantly win 250 and 450 classes on the CR125 with motor by MAXPOWERRPMS. He doesnt usually get the hole shot but by the end of the race he is in the front with wind to spare becdause of far less weight and far less rotating mass in the middle. That is why there are so many different size bikes out there, so everybody can have what they want.
Sure hope to see the 200 appear in the Husky line next year!!!

Its been an interesting read, and yes, I have learnt a few new things about this whole mid capacity thing. The only way to really understand would be to blag a ride on one and I can't see that happening. My 250's a great ride, plenty of power, handles well, covers my mistakes without complaining, comfortable and easy to ride, what more could I want...........well maybe a 300

Well, you've hit it there Crocus.
"My 250's a great ride, plenty of power, handles well, covers my mistakes without complaining, comfortable and easy to ride, what more could I want."

When you find what works, that's all that matters. We all need to find what works for us and that will be different for most. Lots of people are out there riding bikes they think they like but they don't really know until they've spent a lot of time on different brands, displacements, ridden different disciplines and such. Hell, I remember when I thought I was a motocrosser and changed bikes a couple times a year. That's not to say that everybody is riding the wrong bike until they figure it out as pretty much everything out there is great compared to what we had to choose from in the seventies.

I would venture a guess that most of us riding these enhanced small bores have spent a lot of time in this sport. Part of the fun is figuring out what really works for you, not what the magazines stuff down our throats or what your buddy thinks. When we're young and full of piss and vinegar we want all the power we can get. There are plenty of us 125 lb Maico 490 pilots out there I'm sure. As we learn our lessons (AGE), we find what we really need and typically that's good suspension and handling with just the right amount of forward thrust. For the majority, that's a 250 or 300 no doubt. For a different group its the bike in question here.

For me there is no question; my 165 is hands down the best bike I've owned and that list goes back to 1973. Plenty of power, excellent handling, light weight, fantastic chassis, reduces my mistakes, easy to ride FAST, doesn't wear me out, what more could I want.