I believe you are the 4th person to confirm that, and yes it defies all logic. That information also blends well into the fact someone else said there was a intermittent (on/off) 60mA drain on the battery i.e. it could be that for a week the systems are powering up occasionally and keeping whatever settings the bike has learned up to date, but after a period of time (3 weeks?), or certain voltage/watt.hour has been reached that it goes back to default. At some point someone could experiment by leaving a battery tender on it perhaps, or perhaps let a 650 sit for a month but let it re-learn things by letting it sit idling for 5 full minutes so it can re-learn things a bit. I had a Toyota Tacoma that would change the shift points based on how it was driven, and it used to drive me nuts that it kept shifting between 2 gears about 29mph. 28mph and any press of the accelerator at all and it would downshift, 29mph and backing off on the accelerator would upshift. Drove me nuts because at the time a large % of the time that was the speed I wanted to go. Disconnect the battery and it went back to factory defaults and it stopped doing that for a week - but the radio presets were lost. I sold the Tacoma because of that and other nuances, however my TR650 has a *lot* more soul (and at the moment is more practical) than the Tacoma was.
Mine did the same after sitting for a while. Then it healed itself after I let it idle for > 3 minutes. Bill at Bill's Husky confirmed that it seems to get amnesia, but cures itself after a long ride. My Wuka King Booster Plug arrived. Should I install it anyway?
TE250Guy, I would. I bought my Strada from Bill's and just installed the booster plug yesterday. So far it does seem to run even better than the initial MOSS set up that Bill's shop did when I bought it.
I did it!!! I Installed the Wuka King Booster plug. It was easy, just like everyone said I mounted my switch in a vacant hole next to the grip heater switch Bill installed. Red is for Hot days above 80 degrees. Blue is for the rest. I zip tied the temperature probe on a convenient cable at the front of the bike. It is the red thing I went for a quickie test ride and it was very smooth with no stumbles or stutters, just like everyone said. It was smooth even when I purposely lugged it. What a pleasure to ride. BTW, it was about 72 degrees today. The spoofed temperature read 32 degrees with the switch on LOW (Blue). It read 59 degrees with the switch on HIGH (Red). It also displayed the * warning symbol on the panel because it thought it was freezing! Also, the bike seem to start quicker with less cranking. Thanks to High Five and others for the excellent write-ups on the install and encouragement to proceed It was a real confidence booster. If anything changes, I will report back, but so far, so good.
Quick question for anyone with an opinion regarding the location of the temperature sensor for these plugs. The factory temp sensor is inside the airbox and usually measures a bit warmer than ambient temperature. Some are mounting these extra sensors in the airflow to get fresh air. I have only very quickly mounted my booster plug so I jsut stuffed the wiring and the temp sensor inside the left hand side plastic area without giving much thought to whether the air temp is being measures in the fresh airflow. Would it make much difference being behind plastic (but still forward of the engine so not likely to get much radiant heat from there while moving) rather than completely external as TE250guy and HighFive have done (I think I saw his pics on ADVrider).
Great info all, thanks! Thinking of getting the booster. Anyone see issues installing with only a couple hundred miles? Should it be ridden more prior to booster install? Dealer swears that they used the MOSS tool prior to delivery but I am having the same stalling and stumbling issues described by many here. Tried letting it idle for 3 minutes and longer still having the issues. ***edit*** just ordered the WUKA.. what kind of shipping time can be expected? Thanks...
Mine's stuff in behind my head light with all the other wires...not too close to pick up the heat from the bulb though.
You touched on something that I've been thinking for a while, what if the OEM sensor was simply relocated?
I zip-tied mine to the return brake line for the front ABS system. shouldn't get too much heat, especially when moving. --Chris
This is from the Booster Plug guy.: Where should I install the External NTC sensor ? Route the wire with the NTC resistor to a place where the NTC is not effected by engine or radiator heat and zip-tie it in place. Do not place the external sensor behind Cylinder Heads or Radiator. Install it in a location where the sensor is receiving a reasonable amount of cool air when you ride your bike. This is important - don't install the sensor under the shielding where its influenced by the heat from the engine. You can see his very excellent write-up of how this thing works here: http://www.boosterplug.com/shop/cms-21.html I am very impressed by the Booster Plug guy's knowledge and professionalism. I know nothing of the HighTechCoonass (aka HTC), nor of the equally "high tech" sounding (not), uninspiring Wuka King name. Only word of mouth from many happy BMW F800 guys and some well respected Husky guys. HTC has lots of happy customers and no failures that I have heard of since he started doing this in 2011 for the guys with the $18k+ bikes. Oh well. I could send it back for a full refund, but why? It seems to work as advertised. My biggest concern is failure of the components or connections. What I received from HTC was very rugged and of excellent quality. To be honest, the weak point to me looked like the BMW connector that plugs into the sensor. Wish BMW would have sealed and potted it like HTC did. Also adding a switch is one more component to fail. He has a version that does not have a switch but is perpetually on BLUE. I like the switch. BTW, I was concerned about my switch location since it is out in the open and subject to rain. Not to worry. It is rated waterproof. HTC says you can add some Loctite Dielectric grease to it like the cable company and phone companies. do. I will too. I think I will keep my eye on the temperature gauge more often which should give an indication if something worked loose or is going wrong. That temperature is most likely going through the bike's computer to show the reading on the panel. If there was a failure or anomaly, the fix is easy: Disconnect it and plug in the factory setup. No harm, No foul.
The new sensor on the Booster Plug has a totally different resistor valve than the OEM. Fooling the ECU to thinking it's winter...thus causing the ECU to pump in more fuel. Relocating the OEM sensor would not be enough of a gain to make a difference. (Unless you could wrap the OEM sensor in ice while you're riding...dip it in a Timmy's "Ice Cap" maybe)
I understood what you typed, but until someone actually tries relocating the OEM sensor outside of the air box, do we really know?
I think what Coffee is suggesting is that since we know the sensor reads too hot in its current location, why not relocate it to a place where it will read cooler. You won't get a 20 degree C drop, but maybe you would see an adequate improvement for free, or maybe for the price of a couple of plugs and wires if you needed to extend it. I guess you could splice in the wires only and avoid the cost of the plugs. I think mine read consistently at least 10 degrees F too high before I did the WUKA thing. Anal types, aka, ME, would probably leave the stock sensor in place to plug the hole and get another sensor for the extension if the $$ was reasonable. It would be an easy test to run since we can see the temperature reading on the panel. Good observation, Coffee
Correct. That is exactly what I meant, although I've no idea if additional wires/sensors would be needed - have not gotten that far into it. What is baffling to me, is that depending on the day, my bike operates quite differently. Some days it runs fantastic, some warm days it seems way too hot, and still other days it 'bucks' when letting off the throttle any amount what-so-ever. I thought it was weather related, but it seems independent of that. Regardless, until I can characterize that idiosyncrasy, I probably will make few changes such as the ones being discussed in this thread.
Just thinking out loud... Could there be a correlation to where you last filled up the fuel? I'm also wondering if the evap canister plays some role, even if it's not completely due to it. like if it's been hot, causing more fumes to get soaked up in the canister, then sometime later when the bike is used, those extra fumes are causing problems? eh, just thinking out loud...
I use the exact same gas station, grade, and usually the exact same pump - 90% of the time. Though I will keep that in mind. I was thinking the EFI system was a bit too smart, or said another way - it's control loop is unstable i.e. it tries too hard for perfection, and some days it works better than others. I will disconnect the battery at some point, but the coefficients are probably in Non Volatile Memory, which is extremely cheap these days (like a small flash usb thumb drive). Need to go visit, and document, a MOSS dealer that knows what can be changed or reset.
DING...DING....DING! We might just have a winner here! Some of you may know that Kelly and I have been working with DynoJet in resolving an idle issue that some TR's have been experiencing. We recently started looking at the evap canister system (actually more like the purge valve) and are pretty sure that it is causing the issues we have seen. I have been quiet and say pretty sure because we are still testing this. What I can confidently say is that ever since I performed the “canisterectomy”, my idle issues are gone! I have gone through a full tank of gas (didn’t note mileage…just know that I filled it up the day I gutted everything, and filled up again last night) and have yet to have any issues. This is a portion of the conversations regarding this discovery… “I can tell you this, when the EVAP canister / carbon canister solenoid cycles, it makes the bike act strange when the bike is good and warm/hot, and the fuel in the tank is creating vapor/pressure. Since my bike doesn't have the idle issue consistently, can someone try pinching the line runs from the throttle body to the can? It's the nipple on the top/front of can. I've got mine disconnected from the can and plugged for now. I had so much pressure built up at one point.....a lot of idling.....when I opened the tank it pissed a ton of pressure off. When it cycles the solenoid with this much pressure the AFR goes from 14.7 to 10.4 and stalls the bike......and this was in a completely stock form.” ...and soon after... “I had a customer come by the office with this bike enquiring about a Power Commander. His TR is bone stock up to this point. He also mentioned excessive pressure relief when opening his fuel tank. He did not mention high idle problems, but when I had him start it up and I opened the throttle and tried to hold it steady at about 3000 RPM, the IAC would constantly open and close while the throttle was held steady as a rock. The engine would surge back and forth from 3000-4000 RPM.” Hey Coffee, do you still have your evap can installed? If so and you want to keep it for whatever reason, try plugging off the line between the valve and canister and see if that keeps the bike from exhibiting the things you have noticed.
Don't evap canisters have an escape to air? Isn't there a little nipple at the bottom of the canister that is open to air. Could this be a vent? I seem to recall this facing upwards? Is there any chance this is getting plugged up...dirt, mud, bugs, maybe? I just don't seem to have any serious idle problem on mine and the extra pressure in the tank you mention seems odd and I haven't noticed that pressure on mine. I thought evap systems had a vent after the 'charcoal' material to allow pressure venting?
