So I went out riding and playing with the settings again.. But before I left I lowered the green zone to 3 to get my cruising AFR's closer to 14.5, and the yellow zone to 2.5 to get AFR's up between 13.2-13.5 where best power is found (thanks roger04 for all this valuable info). I also lowered the yellow/blue to 1.5 and red/blue to 3.5 to see if that would help with the rich stumbling issue/transition. And off I went.. Weather was dry and around 10 degrees C. Pretty much as soon as I was out of my driveway and started accelerating through the gears, the rich stumbling issue was back and worse then before. I figured I would ride on a bit to ensure the engine was properly warm, but the issue persisted and the stumbling happened almost every time I accelerated quickly through the gears. So I figured I was adjusting the wrong way in the transition zones, so I turned the yellow/blue way up to 7 and the red/blue to 7 as well. This was much better and no matter how hard I treated the throttle, I couldn't induce the rich stumbling. However, it also made the engine and throttle response feel more sluggish... Not what I wanted, but I figured there must be a happy medium in there somewhere.. I had a feeling it was the yellow/blue zone that was the culprit, so I decided to leave the red/blue alone and started adjusting the yellow/blue down by half a point at a time. With every adjustment downwards, the throttle response would get better and better and the engine feel less and less sluggish in the low rpms, and still no rich stumbling issue. When I got to 5 on the yellow/blue the great throttle feeling from stock settings had pretty much been restored, and I only had the rich stumbling appear once right when I took off after adjusting, but I could not make it happen again no matter how hard I tried. So for now I decided to leave the yellow/blue on 5 as that seems close to the happy medium. I might try lowering it to 4.5 on next ride, just to see if that will work too.. When doing all these acceleration runs I had noticed a couple of things.. I needed to add a little to the yellow zone rather then lowering it to keep a consistent 13-13.5 AFR's under acceleration, so I ended up with a yellow setting of 3.5 which would consistently keep the AFR's just there. I also noticed that when cruising in a lower gear and then whacking the throttle open, the AFR's would lean half a point for a split second, but then immediately return to the desired 13-13.5 range and then slowly go lower as the revs would increase. It could not be felt in any way, I only noticed it from watching the AFR meter, and the acceleration would feel instant and quick. And that feature seemed to work well with having the red/blue zone adjusted up to 7, as no matter how I accelerated (normally, pretty quick or full throttle) the AFR's would stay just above 13, and only starting to go down as full throttle was applied AND revs would go above 5000, to finally go down to 12 at full throttle and near max revs. Which I think is pretty ideal for a normally aspirated engine, and the acceleration feels very strong and linear. My cruising AFR's were still a bit lower then I would like, so I ended up adjusting the green zone down to 2, which would give a nice 14-14.5 cruising AFR's. Interestingly though, I noticed that once speed goes past 105 km/h (or 68 mph I think) the cruising AFR's would go down a little bit to maybe 13.5, and I attributed that to the increased wind resistance which would make the engine work harder and therefore move the fueling from green zone to yellow zone. And as soon I as I lowered my cruising speed 5-10 km/h the AFR's would go up to 14.5 again.. Food for thought when doing long distance cruising.. I also tried numerous times to pull the clutch and dump the throttle during all kinds of acceleration situations to see if I could make the engine stall, but it didn't happen once. Every time it would just immediately go down to a rock steady 1600 rpm idle, also when doing it during a rich stumble moment when the EJK was trying to sort itself. I have, as mentioned in last post, never had any stalling issues with my bike to begin with, so bear that in mind.. I also tried some slow technical forest riding at some point, and I actually managed to stall the bike during that until I realized it was in second gear instead of first, so I counted that out.. I did notice when doing that slow technical riding, that when its doing idle or just above in first gear and basically just pulling itself along, the AFR's would be down at 12.5 - 13 so definitely on the rich side, but I also feel that it prevents the engine from bogging and makes it so nice and tractable. So that was yesterdays ride and experiences and I was quite happy with how the bike and fueling felt at the end of it. There might still be room for improvement so I will keep playing for as long as I have the SAFR lambda tool available. I noticed that many of you have the red/blue zone adjusted down a lot and some all the way down to 0.5 which is quite opposite of me, so I will most likely try that too to see what that does to ride ability and AFR's.. Just to recap, my final settings were: 2 - 3.5 - 0.5 - 0.5 - 5 - 7 Alex.
Thank you Alex Danielsen for your well-informed and detailed info. I will try your settings as soon as I get the chance to drive the bike around. Are you getting any lean pop during deceleration with such low green setting?
Thanks for kind words wferrari, I am just happy if I can contribute a little bit and pay back for some of all that valuable information I have gained myself from this great forum.. I do enjoy playing around with the SAFR lambda meter, and its a great tool to see how your engine is fueling and what different adjustments does.. I also have a wideband O2 sensor permanently installed in my old Porsche Turbo car, as its absolutely paramount to keep AFR's in check when you start playing with bigger turbo chargers and higher boost, otherwise you can very quickly end up with a blown engine and a huge repair bill.. But even with our simple single cylinder normally aspirated engines its a great help to get the fueling dialed in.. I haven't paid much attention to any lean pop under deceleration I must admit, but I will check on my next ride out..! I am not quite sure I understand how a lean pop can happen in the first place though, as the injector shuts off completely when rolling off the throttle, which is clearly visible on the AFR meter as it goes to full lean as far as the needle will go. And it does that no matter what green zone settings are at, so there should never be any fuel going through the engine during decel, and therefore no popping I would think..?!? What am I missing here..?? Alex.
You're not missing that much, but lean pops during deceleration is a good (albeit subjective) way to indicate a tendency by the bike to use a lean mixture during normal operations. They are not necessarily bad (I actually like them), and they are quite common on thumpers.
Your making progress! The smaller the AFR differences between the ranges, the smoother the fueling will be.
I'm wondering if the Wiseco fuel controler (made by Dobeck) for the BMW F650 is equivalent to what you're using, Alex. Or, perhaps the base set up is different, which would alter the settings you're using.
I went out riding again for another round of playing with EJK adjusters.. Run-it, my bike is mostly stock with only a one tooth smaller front sprocket and Brisk spark plugs, so no airbox mods at all. I did however had a boosterplug installed from new, which I replaced with the EJK, so in reality I have never run my bike with stock fueling.. Anyway, out I went and I started out with the same settings from last ride, to check if the fueling still felt the same. It was dry with temps around 7 degrees C. Surprisingly I did experience a couple of rich stumbling moments in the first 3-4 minutes of riding, but after that the bike seemed to behave.. My guess was that it had something to do with the bike not being properly warmed up..?!? Other then those initial couple of rich stumblings, the bike behaved well and AFR's were good. As mentioned in my last post, I wanted to try lowering my red/blue zone, as mine was set at 7 where most others runs theirs much lower all the way down to 0.5. So I turned my red/blue right down to 2 and had a go.. The bike didn't feel much different then before and the change didn't seem to affect or cause any stumbling either. It did make the fueling a bit richer though during most acceleration situations, and in any kind of normal to fast accelerations the AFR's would be down around 12.5 - 12.8 instead of the 13 - 13.5 range I was seeing before. At full throttle and above 5000 rpms, the AFR's would go down to 12 like before. I couldn't feel any seat of the pants difference from the slightly richer accelerations and the engine would still pull hard and linear, so it was only because I could see the difference on the AFR meter. I then turned the red/blue up again, first to 4 and then to 6, as that gradually moved the AFR's up to my desired 13-13.5 range during most accelerations, and only dip into the 12's when going full throttle. I did experience a rich stumble again during my fiddling with the red/blue zone, but its my clear impression that it has none or very little influence on the rich stumble issue, but its the yellow/blue zone settings only that impacts that. So I left the red/blue at 6 and turned my attention to the yellow/blue zone.. I was running it at 5 as that seemed to be near the happy medium between a responsive throttle feeling and having lots of stumbling issues. But I decided to try lowering it a bit more, so I set it at 4 which was close to how it came stock. In the first few minutes I had a couple of rich stumbles where the AFR would plummet to 9, or as low as the the meter would show, while the EJK sorted itself out, and I almost decided to turn the yellow/blue up again. But after those initial hick ups, the fueling settled and I only experienced it once more during the next 30 minutes riding, and only when really abusing the throttle and riding in a way I would never do otherwise. The reason I did stay with the #4 setting was that I could feel an instant improvement in throttle response and the engine felt notably more zippy at low revs, which is why I got the EJK in the first place. I then decided to just ride around like I normally do, instead of these constant full on accelerations and erracic test riding, and when doing that I didn't experience any stumblings and the engine was a pleasure to use with instant throttle response and great power. I know its early days and only limited testing, but it seems like there is a short learing curve on the EJK/ECU when changing settings, after which the fuelings settles somewhat. So I decided that I prefer the improved sharper throttle/engine response over the occasional rich stumble if it happens, and decided to leave my yellow/blue at 4. And if this proves to be true, I might try and lower the yellow/blue again later on. All the other settings I am really happy with, as keeping the green zone on 2 keeps my crusing AFR's consistantly at 14.5, and the yellow setting of 3.5 keeps my acceleration AFR's on 13-13.5 in all situations bar full on throttle and high rpms. Red zone needs to be stock as everyone knows, green/blue at 0.5 and red/blue I'll leave at 6 as that gives a nice smooth transition from normal acceleration AFR's 13-13.5 to full throttle AFR's at 12-12.5. So its only the yellow/blue zone I might still play around with and see how low I can get away with, as that increases throttle response notably. And to anwer wferrari's question.. I have absolutely no decel lean pop what so ever... Only nice smooth quiet engine braking.. I guess that's why I haven't paid any attention to it until now.. I have also read others positive reports on the F650GS unit, but I don't now how it compares to my unit.. I would love to try one just for comparison, just as I would love to try the AF-XIED, which seems to get universal praise. It was actually only because Nightrider don't have any European dealers and it would be to expensive to order from US, that I went with the EJK, as ideally I would prefer to keep the lambda function in place. Also because EJK has a European dealer and offers a great discount to service people and officers. Anyway, the EJK is already a great improvement over stock and is capable of keeping near ideal AFR's in almost all conditions. Alex.
I've noticed two things with my bike. 1.) It is extremely sensitive to temperature changes. I live in AZ, so it is normally fairly warm. But, we have had some swings where it will be cold one day, and then warm the next. My bike does not behave well on these drastic changes. If we have the same temps for many days in the row, then it seems like the ECU adapts and behaves well. 2.) If my fuel is low, it wants to stumble. If my miles shows around 140+ miles, it seem to have more stumbling.
I've tried these settings, and the adjusted ones you've posted afterward. I'm not sure if it's due to my driving style, or the fact I'm using a foam filter, but these settings do not work well for me. I get too many stutters, many of them midturn, and sometime an extra powerful engine braking. So for me it's just like at stock, with the difference that I get lean pops very often during slow deceleration, probably due to the green setting of 2. I didn't wait and find out if the EJK or the ECU would eventually adapt to the settings, so I reverted back to my current "nirvana" settings (3-3-0.5-0.5-8-2), which I think are the best compromise between power, responsiveness and predictability. As far as I can remember, the bike is running better now than with the EJK with the 650gs parameters.
Thanks for the feedback everyone. Unfortunatly the only way I can get mine rideable is if I disable the yellow altogether. It's been such a disappointment.
FWIW - I purchased the newer EJK designed for the Terra last fall. I was never able to get it tuned in. Prior to that I had tried a few other fixes including the O2 extender and the Wukka plug. I finally removed the EJK, installed the O2 sensor and took it back to the dealer to have it mossed which resets the ECU, bringing everything back to original factory settings. Then I installed the EJK once again with the original settings it came with. This seems to have worked. I've run a couple tanks of gas through it and it's running much better than it ever has. This has just been my experience and I thought it was worth mentioning. Also, my intake and exhaust setup are stock with the exception of a foam air filter. Hope this helps someone.
As rww pointed, the main culprit is yellow, so what I've tried to do was to reduce as much as possible the yellow zone by setting the blue/yellow as high as possible, and lower the blue/red as well. This way the green settings are extended upward, and the yellow phase, while not totally removed, is reduced in a way that does not cause the deceleration enrichment, something that happens even at B/R of 3. FYI I've also reduced green to 2.5 and the bike seems to like it.
Well this is what i have ended with 3.5-.5-.5-.5-8-.5 The bike runs free and smooth on a cold morning ,it was 29 today, It needs to warm up a bit, start the bike go put gear on, and it runs very well. When its warmer say 45 just light it up and go.....happy with it and done screwing around to make it better. From what I have read on hear if someone wants to do this get the one for the BMW it's cheaper and works better, the guys on the help line were of NO use. This forum made all the difference...Thanks to all and happy summer Rod
Glad to hear yo've got it dialed in. I'll be interested to know if it's still good when the temps hit the 80s or so. Please keep us informed.
I'm pretty much using the same settings of rww. I moved from 2.5-2.5-0.5-8-1.5 to 4-3-0.5-0.5-8-0.5 as the weather is getting warmer, up to the lower 80s. The bike started to get a little too lean for my tastes, and I got the occasional mini-stutter as well. I can positively state that the blue/yellow and blue/red settings completely removed the yellow zone from the game, so it doesn't really matter what value is used as yellow. I really like the way the bike is performing right now, very responsive and predictable at the throttle, and a much gentler engine braking.
Hi all! I've been following this thread and wanted to install a fuel controller. However, I can't make a choice between the Terra-specific EJK and the BMW version. The Wiseco (BMW version) is less expensive than the EJK and I am leaning towards the former. For those who have used both, is one better than the other? Thanks in advance for your replies.
I think that the BMW one is less problematic, less expensive, and with a better resale value (just in case). The settings posted early on in this thread should be a good starting point, then you can adjust them according to your preferences. The tricky part is to make the transition between green and yellow as smooth as possible, but once you've found the sweet spot the BMW unit works fine.
