The web site for powercommander already has part #'s, it just doesnt say you can purchase it yet... 2009 Husqvarna TE510 / SM510 Power Commander V Part# 23-004 $359.95 AutoTune Part # AT-200 $249.00
Dean, another question for Dustin. How much latitude of adjustment does AutoTune provide, i.e. if one starts with a 250 (and appropriate map) then later upgrades to 310, can AutoTune adjust on it's own, or does it require the 310 base map be loaded? Thanks again!
If you were to buy a PC III and then have the bike professionally dyno tuned, you are looking at about the same price. A dyno tune, depending where you live, runs anywhere from $275-400. I am still not 100% sold on spending $600 either, but I am very interested in the autotune function. I am just worried about being the first 10 customers with it for this bike.
It is my hope that when I go to pick up the bike tomorrow that they will have 10 minutes to comment on this thread and sort out some details. This is a good thread with good input & questions.
Yes it is! Even at that I'm on the hook, just don't know if it is set yet. After some technical riding the other day I had a case of the dreaded flame outs. I would've paid $1000 for it on the trail . If it can cure that, I'm in.
Please let us know if you see a difference with the seat of the pants dyno, and a increase in everyday situations.
If you are referring to cbreakin's SM510 that was tested - he should not notice any difference because it was running extremely well prior to to putting the PC V in , and the PC V is not doing a whole lot. I may be offline till tomorrow after this post.
http://www.oppracing.com/products/1873-husqvarna/ it should be available from places like above soon- I was of the belief that the PCV had a few more increments of adjustment that may or may not amount to much more specific tuning than the PC3 but wanted to point to the fact that DJ claims it is not the same as the PC3 in a different package. The changes may or might not be huge (I have not used either to know the significance) but the ability to use the auto tune whether initially or later as an add on is a nice feature. http://www.powercommander.com/powercommander/Products/PowerCommanderV/powercommander_v.aspx The PCV is a little smaller too... * Reduced size from PCIIIusb (less than half of the size of PCIII) * USB powered from computer (9 volt adapter is no longer needed for programming) * 2 position map switching function built in (map switch not included) * Gear input (allows for map adjustment based on gear and speed) * Analog input (allows user to install any 0-5 volt sensor and build an adjustment table based on its input such as boost or temperature) * With gear position input connected the PCV is capable of allowing each cylinder to be mapped individually and for each gear (for example: on a 4 cylinder bike with a six speed transmission there could be up to 24 separate fuel tables). * Unit has a -100/+250% fuel change range (up from -100/+100%). This allows more adjustment range for 8 injector sportbikes * 10 throttle position columns (up from 9 on PCIIIusb) * Enhanced “accel pump” utility (increased adjustment and sensitivity ranges) GOOD JOB DEAN !!! way to make it happen!!!
Here's my question though, and please forgive my ignorance on the FI. If you buy the PC V with the AutoTune option is there really any reason to "fiddle" with your fuel map? Doesn't the AutoTune take care of that for you as a real time, learning device? Or am I way off?
I talked to Dusty at length again today before leaving Vegas, he is going to sign up and explain the situation in greater detail and clear up some confusion. They will not be available for a few weeks anyway, they need to alter some PC Vs a bit before they can ship (cables cut to length, etc.)
Do all bikes need to be tuned like this? Is the factory tune with the powerup kit really that bad? Seems like it varies from bike to bike? I dont want to buy a new bike then have to spend $600 to make it run right. I can spend way less on rejetting a carburetor but it is more of a hassle. Looking forward to a good explanation of what to expect from the PC V and auto tune. Seat of the pants results not so much numbers and graph details. Thanks for bringing this info to us Coffee.
no not at all- not after being hooked up to the Ibeat once or twice... it does vary- and I believe what is expected of the bike by the owner in their conditions varies more- opinions of a fine tuned bike is highly subjective- and some people like to play with tuning and feel in control. If you can tune the FCR carb to what you call perfection 9/10 you will want a power commander with an EFI bike.
I'm a bit confused on the need for the PC. Do you have to do any calibrating once you hook the PC up to your bike, or is it a plug/play device set up for your specific model? Example, if I buy the PCV for my 09 TE310 without the autotune, is there any "tuning" that needs to be done to it? Understand the auto-tune makes adjustments on the fly for different elevations/temp/etc., but again, not sure I'm clear on what it is exactly the PC does. Seems you could just as easy take the bike to a dealer, hook up to the iBeat and get it tuned to your liking, and not have to have the additional hardware connected to your bike. Sorry, new to this EFI stuff too!
Hey guys, I will do my best to try and answer all these questions. If I have missed one please repost as I will start watching this forum. First big thanks to Dean for bringing us this bike and enlightening us on some of the Husky data. It has been very difficult for us to get info and bikes to do any testing with in the past. The orignial data for the PCIII came from our distributor in Italy. We have even been to FBF in Italy and FBF in PA to do testing. The PCIII for the Husky models are all the same base unit. This means that you can take a 250 unit and install it on a 610 with no issues. The reason we have different parts numbers is due to the base map that is shipped in each unit. If you order a 250 unit it will come with a map in it to optimize the fuel curve for a stock 250. So if you are putting it on a 610 make sure to download the map that correlates to your setup and you will be fine. This also goes for the 2009 SM510 unit we will be releasing shortly. You can put this on your 250, 310, 450, 610 but we only have a map for the 510 at this time. It would be up to you to adjust the map accordingly. The PCIII and PCV will give about the same performance at the end of the day. The PCV does offer a few new features and they are definitely different inside!! If desired you can make a completely new fuel map per gear, it offers the ability to store 2 maps that can be toggled back and forth by using any SPST switch, 0-5v input that allows you to trim your base map, and the addition of Auto tune. The Auto tune module is a universal part that will work with any PCV. This unit allows you to input target AFR values in the same resolution as your base map. While riding the unit will populate trim values based off this target. The PCV will use the trim values in real time while riding so you can feel the difference instantly. After some time you can then use the software to ACCEPT TRIMS. This will apply the trims to your base map and they trim table will be zeroed out. If you using a map switch (SPST) you can then have your base map in 1 position and have Auto tune enabled in the other. This is a good feature as if something should go wrong in either the bike or the PCV system then you can toggle back to a base map. There are other fail safes built into the Auto tune to keep the bike from running poorly if something goes wrong. Many ask us how long does it take for Auto tune to build a map. This depends solely on your riding style. If you were to hold the bike at a steady throttle and RPM you would see the targer AFR be achieved in matter of a couple seconds. This is because the system is seeing valid data at the same point over and over. If you were to make a full throttle blast thru the RPM range you may not see any changes in the trim table. It would take a few blasts thru the same range for it to start populating values. The Auto tune has an input adjustment for the max trim value that the PCV will allow per session. The default is +/- 20. What this means is that if you start with a zero map and ride the bike the largest trim value it will adjust is +/- 20 (if needed). You would have to ACCEPT TRIMS and then run it again to reach the target. This can be adjusted if desired. As you ride the bike more and more the trim tables should get smaller and smaller and this value can be reduced if desired. One thing to keep in mind is the Auto tune is only as good as the data it sees. Intake, exhaust leaks, reversion in the exhaust are all things that can skew the readings and make your bike run worse. The sensor we use is a standard Bosch sensor found in many cars. The expected life expectancy is 80k miles according to Bosch. Hope this info helps. Feel free to ask more questions.
Welcome Dusty! Questions in red If you need anything let me know, I keep referring to you as Dusty and I'm not sure that is ok with you. Again, Welcome to the forum
Dynojet, Thanks so much for responding on here. I know a lot of guys very interested in what you have to say....most of us are EFI newbs. Sooo, the AutoTune is actually a real time adjustment but rather it gathers data and then, after hooking it back up to the computer, lets you "trim" your map for optimal settings? Keep it attached, every hundred miles or so "accept trims"? Is that anywhere near correct? Also, I'm personally trying to cure a flameout situation that occurs a low/idle rpm's. Always at the worst possible moments and when the bike is getting jostled around. What I'm afraid of is it's not the fuel map but a pressure loss or something like that. But, in regards to the dreaded flameout would the AutoTune help that situation any? Thanks again for taking the time to help us out. Oh yeah, when will it be available. Lee
The 0-5 input is analog. This is intended to be used for temperature input or boost input. In the software you can setup a table up to 10 inputs and trim the fuel table. So you could say at 200f add 5% fuel and 205f add 7% and so on. Can also be used for startup fuel based on temp. So when cold you could add or take away fuel as needed. Only works on Windows at this time. The map switch gets hooked up to a different input. Closed (continuity) puts the PCV in Auto tune mode. Open is running off your base map. If using the map switch to toggle Auto tune on/off then you can not use it to store 2 maps. You can do one or the other It would make adjustments with a Ricky type rider it just may take a bit longer to populate the cells. It needs to see the same data for a given amount of times before making changes. The Pikes Peak Supermoto class was just won by a CRF450 with a PCV and Auto tune installed and it had populated most of the cells by the end of the run. Guy said it ran great all the way up! I have not experienced or have heard of this flame-out issue until Dean spoke of it. If this is due to a poor fueling issue then the PCV has the ability to cure it. If anyone has this issue and can get to our facility I would be happy to look at it.
