TE630 dyno results and thoughts

[lankydoug]

Seems to me when this ethanol thing really got going the boaters were trying to get the marinas exempt because the fuel is so hard to stow onboard. Phase seperation is just awful and it corrodes the marine engines. Makes a real mess of things. If you think its hard to live with for bikes it's way worse for outboard motors.

Absolutely, once ethanol absorbs moisture it becomes very corrosive. I used to have a drag race car that ran on methanol and if an aluminum anodized fuel fitting got a scratch in it within 6 months it would look like weevils ate it.

 

[DYNOBOB]

Skater cats use sections of the sponsons as fuel tanks. They discovered ethanol was dissolving esters/resins or something in the fiberglass and tearing up high dollar engines.

I run 100LL in my chainsaws, the 900rr turbo all the time, and Supra turbo when I run it at the strip. Luckily I can pump it in 5gal cans at the airport down the street. Be aware though that using way more octane than your vehicle needs may cost you hp. I will not tune the Husky for avgas because it will be ridden to much and too far from my source.

Here's some info on av gas from an aircraft owner on the chainsaw forum.

There is quite a bit of misinformation about 100LL Avgas. I'll try to address some of this.

1) Avgas contains lead. However, recent modifications to 100LL (under the very same specification) have resulted in a product known as 100VLL (very low lead) It's what is generally available at Avgas pumps now. In other words, much of 100LL sold today is actually 100VLL.

2) Avgas is engineered to vaporize readily, for excellent cold and high altitude performance.

3) Avgas is high octane fuel.

4) Alcohol free unleaded has limited real world anti knock performance. Generally 93 is the maximum number, R+M/2. Without significant engineering, unleaded gasoline is incapable of higher octane. Swift fuels (a 100LL replacement) is an experimental high octane unleaded. It's not available.

5) Due to excellent vaporization, idle, low speed and high speed "jetting" may need to be adjusted slightly leaner with the use of 100LL.

6) Many high RPM engines exhibit a slight loss of power on 100LL. This is generally due to improper fuel/air mixture.

I use 100LL in all my yard equipment. It is trouble free. A perfect example is the lifespan of the primer bulbs on pump gas v 100LL. I have a 12 year old Echo blower with the original primer bulb at my aircraft hangar, still in perfect working order (avgas since new). Where my Echo weed eater at home has been through many primer bulbs with auto gas. I've now switched to 100LL in everything and my fuel system troubles have been eliminated.

Also, when properly tuned, 100LL just runs smoother in 2 strokes at low loads. Mostly due to vaporization issues.

One more thing. Avgas is consistent. It does not change from batch to batch, location to location or seasonally. So, once you are properly jetted and tuned, you are good to go. It's an advantage that is not possible with pump gas, as the blends change seasonally and the ethanol content varies. Giving inconsistent performance and making occasional re-jetting required.

FYI, the switch from leaded to unleaded fuels in the 2 stroke GP bikes resulted in a serious reduction in crankshaft bearing life. In fact, the elimination of lead was the catalyst for the development of significantly better 2 stroke oils. The EG-D oils.

You won't find significant deposits when using Avgas. It burns clean and scavenges well. The use of Avgas with a quality synthetic oil will result in a very clean combustion chamber, and zero muffler deposits. However, lead fouling of sparkplugs can happen with long periods of low loads. It's rather rare now, with the 100VLL.

1) Answer, in most areas, the recent reduction in 100LL's lead content results in far less gray in the exhaust pipe. While some areas may still have the higher lead content, it's being phased out rapidly. My personal aircraft, a Cessna 177RG, run on 100LL, won't have gray deposits in the pipe very often anymore. Mostly black now. In fact, it's been at least 6 months since I've had a batch of 100LL that left gray deposits. 100VLL (very low lead) is the norm now, and it's an excellent fuel, and it's still branded as 100LL.

2) 100LL is a great fuel for storage. It evaporates without leaving significant deposits, other than a hint of blue dye and won't varnish or gum up. In fact, it's specified to be good for at least 5 years in storage. There are compelling reasons to use 100LL as a storage fuel and in equipment that does not see regular use.

While the spec for 100LL calls for about 2 grams TEL/gal, the reality is that it contains less, and has been trending that way for quite some time.

 

[lankydoug]

DYNOBOB, All you have stated above is true about VP110 and Sunoco110 as well. One thing about the leaded fuels is that they can not be left out in the sun or the lead will separate out of the fuel. No worries if you have a metal or black fuel can but a clear translucent container must be stored indoors or in the shade.

I use VP110 in all my lawn equipment as well as my bikes and quit mixing it with pump gas as the bother wasn't worth the savings. I have put the occasional spark plug in from lead fouling (one or two plugs last year) and that was more due to running lots of slow tight woods with too big of a pilot jet.

 

[jtemple]

I get a notice on my phone for an app upgrade and it refreshes the data (I'm assuming) It might be up to the stations to notify puregas because I have found no ethanol stations that were not on the app.

There is a link on the website for users to enter in fuel station information. So, it is crowdsourced, as far as I can tell.

 

[Rob578]

Unfortunately I have no dyno charts bur I did do an ADV Rally last weekend (more on that later)

I rode in a group of twenty or so a mix of Kim 990s, 690s and the usual KLRs and DRs. The 630 was as fast or faster than the 690 and had no trouble keeping the 990s in sight on the open stretches and was way faster than the others. With the Leo Vince, power commander and autotune the bike feels like it picked up 15-20hp over stock.

 

[DYNOBOB]

I added a little something to the horn button for my buddy's new 500exc who's been talking smack about the 630 (and laughing at the givi box).

JUST KIDDING...

 

[Ketek]

I haven't read the whole thread because I don't have enough time atm, but 35HP? Wow.. mine dynoed 53PS at the wheel. The chart is somewhere in the forums too..

 

[Fast1]

I added a little something to the horn button for my buddy's new 500exc who's been talking smack about the 630 (and laughing at the givi box).

so you have to carry extra oil for the KTM 500 in the Givi and allow extra time for him to change it in the middle of a ride?

 

[Travis Shrey]

What Givi is that? I have an E430 or something and it is just too big. That looks like a good size.

I'd like to ride a 630 with some laughing gas, that would be a hoot.

I added a little something to the horn button for my buddy's new 500exc who's been talking smack about the 630 (and laughing at the givi box).

 

[DYNOBOB]

so you have to carry extra oil for the KTM 500 in the Givi and allow extra time for him to change it in the middle of a ride?

We bought our bikes two months ago. He has changed oil 3x already to my 1x. It's a bad dude but I wouldn't have the patience.

 

[DYNOBOB]

UPDATE: Just installed a Power Commander V with the factory installed map for a stock TE630. I did three runs, installed the PCV, and did three more runs. What a difference, it made almost 48hp. The baseline run was with the PU kit. The PCV comes with its own O2 sensor bypass plug so I'll probably have a Husky PU plug for sale. I'm going to tweak the map to see if I can improve a little more and install the LM1 to check a/f.

Here's the factory installed PCV map. It's richened by as much as +24% at 100% throttle.

 

[Rob578]

I need to post my autotuned map, looks a lot different than the stock PCV

 

[MotAd]

interesting stuff. our hp curves are almost identical. your torque comes on earlier than mine but results in the same area, guess that's down to the cc. reckon you should be able to squeeze a bit more out of her

 

[DYNOBOB]

I need to post my autotuned map, looks a lot different than the stock PCV

Yeah, I'd like to see what the autotune gave you.


So I played with it a little more over the weekend. I did pulls at +/-5% from Dynojet's settings (@100% throttle) and both hurt power. Tells me that Dynojet did their job pretty well mapping a stock bike. Of course they do it every day, have the latest dyno, and the best sniffers. I also put the LM-1 back on to look at a/f readings at part throttle openings. That looked good also, staying in the high 12 to low 13 range. However, once again when I turned on the cooling fan my a/f readings went weird. I could be wrong but I think the fan was cooling the header pipes and throwing off the readings (and it seems like cool air while riding might do the same). To me this does make the case for getting rid of the O2 sensor and closed loop system. Also makes me wonder if the results of Autotune might be affected. Anyway I'm super happy with where I'm at now.

One other thing I noticed (watching the laptop hooked to the PC-V during pulls) is the tps shows 3% when the bike is off or idling w/ the throttle closed. The PC-V will let you recalibrate the tps but I haven't done that yet.

 

[MotAd]

it'd be interesting to see the difference (if any) if you put road rims & tyres on her now. wonder if the graphs would differ much?

 

[DYNOBOB]

I don't think they would in terms of tire slippage. You can tell if the tire spins or clutch slips, the rate of change between engine speed and tire speed don't make sense to the computer and it leaves a blank area in the graphs. The road rims/tires might have less rotational mass/friction though and more hp would make it to the dyno. Tire pressure can make a difference on a dyno.

It would be cool if everyone with a custom PC-V map would post it w/ a list of their mods.


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[Xpat]

Interesting to see that your new dyno shows the same HP as mine (assuming that you were right and my numbers are already adjusted for the high altitude), while I still have considerably more torque. My airbox is open and I have new ECU (and if I understand correctly you don't), but would that have additional impact only on torque without affecting HP?

 

[SilverBullet]

One other thing I noticed (watching the laptop hooked to the PC-V during pulls) is the tps shows 3% when the bike is off or idling w/ the throttle closed. The PC-V will let you recalibrate the tps but I haven't done that yet.

So if your TPS shows 3% at closed throttle what does it show at full open throttle? I suspect it may be only 98-99% whereas you are not getting your throttle body ever fully WOT. You might pick up a tad bit on your dyno after recalibrating TPS.

_

 

[DYNOBOB]

@Xpat. No doubt our torque numbers and curves are totally different (after converted to same measure). Horsepower is usually a function of torque, so more torque equals more hp. I guess I'd expect a bike with 43ft/lbs to have more like 60+hp so maybe your hp is not corrected up yet. Even so, the shape of our tq curves are totally different. I suspect it could be different brands of dynos that have different ways of measuring (was yours a Dynojet?). In the end, all the dyno numbers are for is finding the settings that produced the best hp for your bike. In the world of Dynojet dynos I have 17yrs of experience/customer feedback with my machine and know it produces "middle of the pack" numbers compared to others.

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[DYNOBOB]

So if your TPS shows 3% at closed throttle what does it show at full open throttle? I suspect it may be only 98-99% whereas you are not getting your throttle body ever fully WOT. You might pick up a tad bit on your dyno after recalibrating TPS.

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I thought the same thing but it does show 100% at wot. I think all it's messing up is when the map is using the 30% settings the bike is actually at 33% throttle...or vice versa.

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