Flaming out, cough stalls and false neutrals, 14 250r

[rschneider]

I am going be on map 2 as well. Both JAM and myself got our bikes from the same dealer. I asked about flashing to the race map when we were setting the bike up. He told me that when they had tried that before, with the stock exhaust, it didn't work very well. I am currently still running the stock exhaust with out the db killer.

And just to clarify, when talking about the TE/TXC, there are three maps? Correct?

Map 1: The stock map for the TE to meet emissions.
Map 2: This would be the power up map for the TE, and the stock map for the TXC
Map 3: This is the race map for use with an aftermarket exhaust. This the also the LeoVince map?



Hey JAM, why don't you go ahead and get the PCV and let me "borrow" it for awhile? Just for testing purposes of course...
Did you take the video this weekend?

 

[Tinken]

You're right, because the bike I was referring to did have a complete exhaust system. There is a baffle welded into your silencer half way down.

 

[JAM]

I debated the JD and inquired with Tinken before approaching Dynojet. JD is seat of the pants tuninig unless you have some figures from a dyno tuned bike and you get to tune in segments like you would a carb... pilot, needle, needle position and main. PCV gives you a finer breakdown as shown in the table above. So you have more exacting control as well as Accel. Pump and TPS and AFR adjustments. Then there is Autotune, your dyno on the trail.

I have a feeling Map 2 slots between stock and Map 3 and could be slightly leaner than 3. PCV seems to put you in the drivers seat as they say.

Thanks for the reply. Only time & money...

 

[rschneider]

You're right, because the bike I was referring to did have a complete exhaust system. There is a baffle welded into your silencer half way down.

So, if I was too remove the baffle, I would basicly have an "open" pipe that would be roughly equal to an after market slip on? Has anyone tried that yet?

 

[Boogie]

So, if I was too remove the baffle, I would basicly have an "open" pipe that would be roughly equal to an after market slip on? Has anyone tried that yet?

Yes, but the core ID is large on the stock pipe. More top end but less bottom end power, although I'm not talking huge gains-losses.
I changed to a TC250 slip-on. Straight thru core with smaller ID and 1kg less weight than stock. Seemed to give a good spread of power.

 

[JimBob]

Ok. So the dealer did the power up on my bike for the original owner. It's a 2013 TE310. What 2 maps do you suppose it has? 1 and 2 or 2 and 3? Is there guidance from Husky on this issue or is just completely up to the dealer? It makes good power up top right now, like a race bike, plenty of over rev for me but I ride a lot like JAM in his video. If map 3 is loaded I wouldn't mind trying map 2. If I make a jumper and connect the 2 prong plug behind the headlight will it go to map 1 or 2?

 

[JAM]

I am going be on map 2 as well. Both JAM and myself got our bikes from the same dealer. I asked about flashing to the race map when we were setting the bike up. He told me that when they had tried that before, with the stock exhaust, it didn't work very well. I am currently still running the stock exhaust with out the db killer.

And just to clarify, when talking about the TE/TXC, there are three maps? Correct?

Map 1: The stock map for the TE to meet emissions.
Map 2: This would be the power up map for the TE, and the stock map for the TXC
Map 3: This is the race map for use with an aftermarket exhaust. This the also the LeoVince map?



Hey JAM, why don't you go ahead and get the PCV and let me "borrow" it for awhile? Just for testing purposes of course...
Did you take the video this weekend?

 

[Tinken]

So, if I was too remove the baffle, I would basicly have an "open" pipe that would be roughly equal to an after market slip on? Has anyone tried that yet?

We have removed the baffle before and ran map 3. The bike performs pretty well. Full ProCircuit + PCV and possibly porting would be the hot ticket, but would require a few $$. We did this on Nantista's 310R but it did need the pcv which wasn't available at the time.

 

[JAM]

Russ,
I'd be happy to let you sponsor the next one. Yes, I did take the video this weekend.

 

[rabskyline]

Did you have the LeoVince map loaded? Even with this map, the bikes run on the lean side.

This is my map, is this reason for cough stalls ? Goes like a rocket otherwise.
A little video of weekends trail ride
.kia ora part 1, dodgy ditch and loop:

View: http://youtu.be/9-3QB0SnFNM

 

[Johnrg]

This is just a FYI after 40 miles near Bryce and Panguitch Utah on the Casto Canyon Trail and Freemont at 6,900-8,600 feet.



My voltage reading from my PCV TPS table shows .567 and wide open 3.875. I'll post results of my Autontune trim table on my other thread.

http://www.cafehusky.com/threads/power-commander-5-and-autotune-on-a-13-te-310r.44827/

Short story is not one pop and any re-starts when hot allow you to give a touch of throttle and fires right up as opposed to no throttle and flood it, then wait a few minutes :-/ The trim table shows it leaning out 10% throttle and more at 10%. 10% is the max I allow it to change so tomorrow will run the revised map and see if it changes it again. PCV iworking like a champ and while everyone says lean, if you haven't gone to an open pipe it may very well be rich and even more so at high elevations. And yes rich will cause pops on decell. too.

 

[rschneider]

This is just a FYI after 40 miles near Bryce and Panguitch Utah on the Casto Canyon Trail and Freemont at 6,900 feet and above.

View attachment 46401

My voltage reading from my PCV TPS table shows .567 and wide open 3.875. I'll post results of my Autontune trim table on my other thread.

http://www.cafehusky.com/threads/power-commander-5-and-autotune-on-a-13-te-310r.44827/

Short story is not one pop and any re-starts when hot allow you to give a touch of throttle and fires right up as opposed to no throttle and flood it, then wait a few minutes :-/ The trim table shows it leaning out 10% throttle and more at 10%. 10% is the max I allow it to change so tomorrow will run the revised map and see if it changes it again. PCV iworking like a champ and while everyone says lean, if you haven't gone to an open pipe it may very well be rich and even more so at high elevations. And yes rich will cause pops on decell. too.

You started with Map 3 on a stock pipe? Correct?

 

[Johnrg]

Yes with cat removed and velocity stack opened up. I didn't want to make any more noise so never modded the can itself.

 

[rschneider]

Yes with cat removed and velocity stack opened up. I didn't want to make any more noise so never modded the can itself.

Then running rich would fit with what I am reading here.

Summing up my take away on this conversation:

Map 2 with stock pipe(and uncorked on the TE, ie: replace/ modify velocity stack, remove cat, remove db killer) will give a lean condition.

Map 3 with the stock pipe will give a rich condition.

Map 3 with an after market exhaust or stock with the center baffle knocked out, back to a lean condition. I looked down the muffler the other night, that baffle chokes it up pretty good.


I am with you on the noise, the stock muffler with out the db killer is loud enough. I would think with the PCV and autotune it really shouldn't matter which base map you start with, since it will correct either a lean or rich condition.

What we were doing with the TPS adjustment was to correct the lean condition we were experiencing running map 2 with the stock exhaust. The same should hold true if you were running map 3 with an after market or modded stock set up.

 

[Johnrg]

Yes... Good summary. I wasn't aware of the TPS tweak when you guys first posted about it. Makes sense though.

 

[rschneider]

Yes... Good summary. I wasn't aware of the TPS tweak when you guys first posted about it. Makes sense though.

I wasn't aware if it until last Sunday. That was the first time I met JAM. For me, this all started with a random conversation in a parking lot.

 

[Tinken]

Fyi on TPS tweak.

The problem with the TPS tweak is that it is more of a bandaid fix, rather than a real solution. By increasing the voltage across the tps sensor, you are moving your map position over to the left from where it was originally intended to be. If you look at the map on post #57, you will see what I mean. While this may richen your engine in the lower section of the map, but it would be unclear if there would be a mismatch at higher rpm. This would be irrelevant if the oem lambada sensor saw the change and correct the map accordingly, but it doesn't. If you do eventually move to the pcv system, you will be able to either set your tps voltage back down to .56v and use a provided map or use the electronic means built into the pcv software and build your own map to suit your modded tps setting.

 

[rschneider]

Fyi on TPS tweak.

The problem with the TPS tweak is that it is more of a bandaid fix, rather than a real solution. By increasing the voltage across the tps sensor, you are moving your map position over to the left from where it was originally intended to be. If you look at the map on post #57, you will see what I mean. While this may richen your engine in the lower section of the map, but it would be unclear if there would be a mismatch at higher rpm. This would be irrelevant if the oem lambada sensor saw the change and correct the map accordingly, but it doesn't. If you do eventually move to the pcv system, you will be able to either set your tps voltage back down to .56v and use a provided map or use the electronic means built into the pcv software and build your own map to suit your modded tps setting.

I agree that it is a bandaid. A custom fuel would be the ideal solution.

Will the PCV allow you view the map as a graph instead of just a table? It would be interesting to see the shape of the curve and the relationship of throttle position to fuel flow. The output from the TPS should be linear. However I would expect that map is not.

 

[Tinken]

Hmmm.. You could input the map tables into Excel and dot graph them, but I don't think the output is what you are looking for. I use a dyno to show me the output curve. The powercommander allows you to tweak both the fuel map and the ignition map which can be a huge boost. The accelerator pump feature will more than likely fix that low rpm hickup while allowing you to boost acceleration at any time during your rpm range when you whack the throttle open beyond a % value that you choose.

 

[Johnrg]

No ignition timing changes available with this PCV. They tried but could not get a unit to work for timing.