Making the Dog run as it should

[nev..]

I guess Piere renegged on their promise not to move the Husky factory out of Italy.

Well..... my bike was made in Italy.

Before they closed down the Italian plant, they went into overdrive and warehoused about a year's supply of bikes, so that they could continue supplying the world during the year or so when there was no bike production while they shifted to Austria. As far as i'm aware all TR650s were only ever built between about Aug 2012 and May 2013.

 

[Greg Jetnikoff]

In answer to the original post. I have put a PC5 on and all my running problems are fixed. Starts properly and runs way smoother...full stop. You will have to get your's dynoed though. None to the maps available will be suitable for the temp/humidity of the Philippines. New iridium single electrode plugs as well

 

[Coltx]

In answer to the original post. I have put a PC5 on and all my running problems are fixed. Starts properly and runs way smoother...full stop. You will have to get your's dynoed though. None to the maps available will be suitable for the temp/humidity of the Philippines. New iridium single electrode plugs as well

Thanks for your advice.

 

[Mark_H]

Tha

In answer to the original post. I have put a PC5 on and all my running problems are fixed. Starts properly and runs way smoother...full stop. You will have to get your's dynoed though. None to the maps available will be suitable for the temp/humidity of the Philippines. New iridium single electrode plugs as well

Thanks for the info, but.....

"All my running problems are fixed" - so they should be....PC5 fitting...Dyno....adjust custom maps....new plugs...??

Fact is you should not have had the problems in the first place and that is a whole lot of work and expense just to make a bike run as it should.

My whole point is that we should not have to be doing all these expensive mods.
I am convinced that it is not all about specific ECU Mapping either, take a look at the KTM Duke 390. A similarly tuned single cylinder machine, but the difference is, it runs well in Philippines straight out of the box.
The TR650 engine may be good but the manufacturers stock ECU mapping is crap, a point proven by you and many others who have seen the need to spend lots to change it.

I can afford the best state of the art tuning ops, but in principal I refuse to pay because I see no reason why BMW/Husqvarna cannot sort out the mapping in the first place. Judging by this forum, there is not a single TR650 that hasnt had to be modded in some way or other to make it run well - To me that is testimony to a manufacturing failure.

I will probably go down the Dyno-Boost road as a reasonably priced option, mainly because I want my bike to run better and there is a lack of dealer MOSS support where I live.
Believe me, if my dealer was closer and had full MOSS then I would be at their door every day until I got a proper running bike, cos that is what I expected when I bought it.

 

[Greg Jetnikoff]

I haven't had a new bike in the last 5 years that runs properly. NOT ONE. they all run ridiculously lean. Until the Euro and Californian crap gets swept away ( not likely) we are going to have crap running motorcycles. Remember that the EU was looking at banning motorcycles completely a few years ago so don't expect a constructive hearing from them.

 

[danketchpel]

Tha

Thanks for the info, but.....

"All my running problems are fixed" - so they should be....PC5 fitting...Dyno....adjust custom maps....new plugs...??

Fact is you should not have had the problems in the first place and that is a whole lot of work and expense just to make a bike run as it should.

My whole point is that we should not have to be doing all these expensive mods.
I am convinced that it is not all about specific ECU Mapping either, take a look at the KTM Duke 390. A similarly tuned single cylinder machine, but the difference is, it runs well in Philippines straight out of the box.
The TR650 engine may be good but the manufacturers stock ECU mapping is crap, a point proven by you and many others who have seen the need to spend lots to change it.

I can afford the best state of the art tuning ops, but in principal I refuse to pay because I see no reason why BMW/Husqvarna cannot sort out the mapping in the first place. Judging by this forum, there is not a single TR650 that hasnt had to be modded in some way or other to make it run well - To me that is testimony to a manufacturing failure.

I will probably go down the Dyno-Boost road as a reasonably priced option, mainly because I want my bike to run better and there is a lack of dealer MOSS support where I live.
Believe me, if my dealer was closer and had full MOSS then I would be at their door every day until I got a proper running bike, cos that is what I expected when I bought it.

I suspect Husky didn't get enough time to sort it out. They got tossed the BMW engines and in very short time reworked them using Magneti Marelli ECUs. The funky running is also the case with the Husky TE 449/501 bikes (also BMW based engines). I rode my friend's TE449 and I think it might be even worse than my TR650 in stock form. I test rode Husky's TE630 (it's own engine they had developed for some time) and it ran much better out of the box.

KTM is just now learning to get FI right on their bikes. If you read the KTM threads for both the big twins and the 690 thumpers they have been fighting with this issue for a long time. Many guys wanted to yank the FI off the 990s and replace it with carbs to get smoother running it was so bad. Tons of KTM guys have been busy remapping their bikes using TunerPro and other methods. KTM is starting to find a good working method with their latest bikes. If Husky had had the length of time to work out the kinks I'm willing to bet it would be much better, but they basically only got a year or so to sort it all out.

It's critical now as the EU rules have closed the aftermarket ECU tuning options. You can't remap the 2014+ ECUs any longer like the older ones, so you are stuck using aftermarket fixes that ride on top of the ECU instead of direct reflashing of the maps. That sux. The Triumph Tiger guys have been mucking about with maps, and Triumph even offers special maps to work with the Arrow pipes.

Many companies have struggled with this issue, and not just on thumpers, the Japanese included. If you test rode a Yamaha Super Tenere you'd find out about how funky those bikes run in stock form. They don't die, but nearly at some throttle settings, very herky jerky just off idle.

It's just a fact of life. But, ..... if you have the option to buy another bike that makes you happier that is always a possibility. It's a key reason why I get so pissed off when dealers won't allow test rides on motorcycles. I did test ride mine but went into the purchase with the full understanding I'd be fixing the mapping by one means or another, like I've done on every other bike I've ever owned, FI or carb'd.

BTW, I don't have a MOSS dealer within nearly 100 miles of me so I gave up on that approach.

 

[TerraCzar]

I only have the crappy running?stumbles when I don't do the 3 minute warm up. It really should be a sticky, you need to do the 3 minute warm up. Turn the key, let the tach needle and temp sensor go to the settle position, fire up the bad boy. Do not touch the throttle for 3 minutes, enjoy the ride.

 

[isldtime]

Maybe I'm not that picky, but mine seems to run fine with a GPR single exhaust(no cat) and the eruption mod.
Here is a rough video that I was working on with my SJ4000 to get rid of the wind rattle:

View: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=nwiBls6AmLU

Oh yah. It is really too long...

 

[Huskynoobee]

I'm not picky either I guess. I think it runs great. That thing pulls wheelies like, uh, um, never mind, runs great, yep.

 

[Mark_H]

I only have the crappy running?stumbles when I don't do the 3 minute warm up. It really should be a sticky, you need to do the 3 minute warm up. Turn the key, let the tach needle and temp sensor go to the settle position, fire up the bad boy. Do not touch the throttle for 3 minutes, enjoy the ride.

I agree, doing the 3 minute warm up routine does make the bike run better, but in my case, only for the first 5-10 minutes. I notice the difference as it runs really well, pulling cleanly with no pinging etc. But it doesnt last for long.....
Then there I am happily riding along, approaching slow traffic, ease down to third gear and as I select second and the revs drop below 3K, splutter cough cough and often bang - the damn bike has stopped again.
Even worse, performing the same changes when riding through a series of tight slow bends or traffic junctions the damn thing stops again.
Once this has occurred the bike is a different beast, pinging, knocking on acceleration and basically has to be driven instead of ridden.

Now can somebody explain how the 3 minute warm up changes everything ??

 

[danketchpel]

I agree, doing the 3 minute warm up routine does make the bike run better, but in my case, only for the first 5-10 minutes. I notice the difference as it runs really well, pulling cleanly with no pinging etc. But it doesnt last for long.....
Then there I am happily riding along, approaching slow traffic, ease down to third gear and as I select second and the revs drop below 3K, splutter cough cough and often bang - the damn bike has stopped again.
Even worse, performing the same changes when riding through a series of tight slow bends or traffic junctions the damn thing stops again.
Once this has occurred the bike is a different beast, pinging, knocking on acceleration and basically has to be driven instead of ridden.

Now can somebody explain how the 3 minute warm up changes everything ??

Hmm, that is rather severe.

I found mine to be very sensitive to throttle movements just off idle around 2,000 - 2,500 rpm or so in stock form. I found if I "throttled through" that range I could ride the bike OK. I did get a couple cough and nearly die but caught it each time. I didn't have the general character of the bike change though, that part sound quite odd.

The 3 min warm up mostly gets you past the initial portion of the warm up curve where it really likes to die just off idle and can be rather hard to restart.

I will comment that after I installed the PC5 it took a few rides to trust the bike just off idle. I finally got the point where now I trust it 100% to night die or do anything funky and ride it like a normal bike.

I'm not sure what to offer up about the bike changing character unless it's going into a limp mode for some reason.

 

[PaulC]

Interesting, I’ve tried the 3+ minute warm up numerous times and I find it runs like a hairy goat and behaves worse. This is with and without my BP. My TR gets the 3 to 13 second warm up before gently riding away. And over all i find it runs better!

Mark would you be running a lower grade ethanol blend? for this to occur.

 

[drzcharlie]

With the LC2 installed I don't have any rough starting or lean stumble. No warm up required (so far). I now have 2500 miles post installation.

 

[Mark_H]

Interesting, I’ve tried the 3+ minute warm up numerous times and I find it runs like a hairy goat and behaves worse. This is with and without my BP. My TR gets the 3 to 13 second warm up before gently riding away. And over all i find it runs better!

Mark would you be running a lower grade ethanol blend? for this to occur.

Hi, no I am running the best fuel I can find at the moment = Petron Blaze 100 Ron Euro4 grade.

Previously the stumbles and stalls were really dangerous, but I am getting used to the coughs and splutters which occur at around 2100 to 2200 rpm and can usually catch it before it dies now.
I have fitted an O2 sensor spacer and it has made a great improvement, stumbles and stalls are much reduced, but I still get caught out the odd time it decides to die on me.

Believe me I have tried everything including the ECU Reset procedure, 3 min warm ups, changing the fuel between 95-97 and 100 RON and no matter what I do the improvements are short lived and after 10 to 15 minutes the bike still runs like a dog. I has to be driven through the gears and extra care taken on the downshifts to prevent the stalls.

My question - How can performing a simple 3 minute warm up prior to riding make any difference positive or negative to the running of the bike over the next hour or so?
I understand that not warming up may make it run better or worse for a short while, but when it has actually warmed up to normal operating temps then the bike should run as it always does.
As far as I am aware, warming it up doesnt change any ECU parameters, obviously the fuel and atmospheric temps etc are not changed, so how and why does it make a difference?

To all the guys who have fitted expensive ECU parameter mods, Power Commanders, Wukas, AIT Spoofers, AF-Xied, LC2 etc etc

Thanks for the reports that your bike runs better....SO IT @#%$ WELL SHOULD !!

My original take on this is, however you look at it...the manufacturers ECU Mapping (for whatever emission/power reason) is crap. Yes there are environmental variables to consider, but on the whole 99% of TR650 owners have either some lean stumble issues or have modified them out at their own expense.
I live in the Philippines, temps and humidity are high, fuel quality is questionable, I would not expect a bike with a euro spec ECU map to run perfectly, but with mapping based on AIT and O2 feedback, it should be able to cope much better than it does. The KTM 390 Duke has a similarly tuned single cylinder engine with FI and AIT/O2 variable mapping, it runs well where I live (same fuel and same atmospheric conditions) with no mods - BIG QUESTION....WHY?

 

[drzcharlie]

Different fuel rails, different fuel pumps, throttle bodies are tweaked. Couple all of that together and you get a high spec engine but, one that runs very lean to meet California Emission standards. Since it was a 1 1/2 year production there was no time to iron things out and now we all own a bastard bike that we have to make run the way we expect because everyone has seemingly washed their hands of it. So, as they say in the movies..."suck it up buttercup" you'll have to make the decisions on how much money to spend modding it to run to your/our expectations.

 

[PaulC]

May I suggest Mark to put new plugs in and then have the TR mossed. This almost cured my bike with the stalling issue and it might be worth the long trip to the dealer. Of course you have to put a bit faith in the mechanic also. Is he trained?

Its just my experience, but when i have tried the ECU reset (numerous times) the bike runs like pox and mossing seems to fix this. I know all here will disagree but its just my experience.

Stay safe in the Typhoon

 

[Mike Friend]

My TR650 runs great just as it came from the dealer. The few occasions when it hesitated off idle were in the first 500 miles. Now that I have 3500 miles on it, it runs great. I let it warm up until I see about 4 bars on the temp gauge. Then I rev the tits off of it...

I also have a 2014 Honda CB1100, and it has the smoothest fueling of any bike I've ever owned.

I have come to the conclusion that you can't make too many assumptions based on forum inputs. I suspect there is a fairly small percentage of the total production run of any bike that has a problem of some sort. But if you were to take many forums at face value, you would assume that every bike built by every manufacturer is crap. Clearly not the case. Having said that, I find these forums very useful in sorting out issues that do arise.

 

[Mark_H]

Different fuel rails, different fuel pumps, throttle bodies are tweaked. Couple all of that together and you get a high spec engine but, one that runs very lean to meet California Emission standards. Since it was a 1 1/2 year production there was no time to iron things out and now we all own a bastard bike that we have to make run the way we expect because everyone has seemingly washed their hands of it. So, as they say in the movies..."suck it up buttercup" you'll have to make the decisions on how much money to spend modding it to run to your/our expectations.

Thanks Charlie, I fully understand the reasons for the manufacturers lean mapping, emission regs etc, but still nobody has explained why to have or not have a 3 minute warm up would have any effect whatsoever on the running of the bike for the rest of the day.

As for the crap mapping, lean stumble issues, I note that you were one of the first persons to 'sign' the petition created in this website
http://www.cafehusky.com/threads/pe...e-husqvarna-650-random-low-speed-stall.43428/
You went further to state that this is a very dangerous situation..........something which I and many others fully agree with, but has or will anything be done?

I also understand that dealers have 'washed their hands' of the bike and do intend to personally carry out some more mods to rectify the lean stumble situation I experience, just as many have. However, your statement that your bike runs great is really of little help when we consider just how much time and effort plus $$ that you have put into it.

 

[Mark_H]

May I suggest Mark to put new plugs in and then have the TR mossed. This almost cured my bike with the stalling issue and it might be worth the long trip to the dealer. Of course you have to put a bit faith in the mechanic also. Is he trained?

Its just my experience, but when i have tried the ECU reset (numerous times) the bike runs like pox and mossing seems to fix this. I know all here will disagree but its just my experience.

Stay safe in the Typhoon

Thanks Paul, however...

New Plugs ?? .....My bike has covered less than 3000 km and has had the lean stumble since new, ie since the plugs were new, so how will putting more new ones in help?
MOSS the bike....Yes if I could get to a dealer with a MOSS who knew how to properly use it, then I would. I am currently exploring the possibility of a local BMW Car dealership which also sells bikes and has a MOSS. I know I will have to pay for the privilege, but from the results some guys on here have had, MOSS may not be the answer, but we have to try.

 

[Ogre_fl]

I think plugs are worth a try.
I found simply gaping mine correctly after about 4000 miles made mine run significantly better when I had issues show up under high heat & humidity.
I also think perhaps messing with the plug wires may have had an impact as well, there may have been a loose connection or corrosion.
With the 2 plug system I think the bike will probably run on either plug, but not optimally.