2011 TE449 Running well with factory EFI system - finally

[Dangermouse449]

Just so we are comparing Oranges to Oranges, Euro / UK / Australia "Super Unleaded" at 97-99 Octane is similar to North American "Super Unleaded" at 92-95 Octane due to the differences in the octane rating measurement methods (RON in Australia and AKI in North America).

Correct. AKI is an average of the two common methods for testing octane ratings. RON & MON. Research octane no & Motor octane number. Typical minimum standards for Aussie 98RON unleaded roughly matches 94/95 Mon standard fuel.

 

[Dangermouse449]

Following on. Different additives are required to pass both tests, so fuel mixed to just pass 1 test may not pass the other. Fuel producers had to 'overshoot' one test to be able to pass the other as well.
It made sense to make best of both worlds single result test (AKI). If a fuel was just short of a pass on say Mon, but over on Ron, the AKI average would still be a pass.

The only paper I found, in limited time looking so far, for Aus was quite old, '1991'.
I will keep looking as time permits
(Have lots of family commitments before flying out for work again soon)

 

[Dangermouse449]

This is fun!



Also dangermouse,

I do not think the factory ecu reacts to map pressure at all. I am 99% sure. There is no way it is that "smart". I think it simply used the o2 sensor to tune it lean, without regard to manifold vaccum.

Its not speed density in racemap it is just basic rpm, throttle position mapping only.

Huskylove,

I've just pulled the MAP sensor from the TB port, left in plugged in, covered the hole & the engine runs, revved it to half speed etc, ok.

You are correct!

Load is a simple throttle based system, not map based. I imagine the MAP is then only used for atmospheric reference prior to start up.
(The port runs to the vacuum side of the lower butterfly, still seems wasted...)

Now, as to why it runs so well without the butterfly in, no idea at this stage, it just does.

Going back now to edit my post about the MAP based theory and keep the thread factual.

 

[huskylove]

Good to know! Thanks for trying that

 

[Dangermouse449]

Odd that it is in a port to vacuum, but not in use...

 

[Mr Ford40]

Gents I can say to those that are just starting to look at this. YOU MUST HAVE RACE MAP3/MEO MAP/AKRO MAP/
I have a 2012 TE449 pro circuit full system
with the BF Removed and other mod it was more responsive but did not allow the bike to rev [like being in standard mode]
with the BF Removed and other mod and RACE MAP 3 the bike was peeky , fast response and no crackling out off the rear of the pipe or flames.

Before you do this mod make sure you have race map 3. otherwise

AND GENTS THERE ARE NO BOXING RINGS HERE NO CAGES WE ARE NOT HERE TO FIGHT BUT WE ARE ALL SHARE THE SAME PASSION AND THAT IS OUR BIKES. AND YES EVEN IF THEY ARE DIFFERENT COLOURS.

MAY ONE DAY WHEN WE DIE WE WILL ALL GO TO BIKE HEAVEN AND RIDE TOGETHER.

 

[Dangermouse449]

This is also what I said in the original post.

Anyone attempting the mods should have exhausted the other possibilities first.
Once on the newer map, the small adjustments for extra fuel (whether by tps or piggyback) & with the butterfly gone, the bikes are the equal of anything in the 450cc class.

As delivered from new, correct, they are only as good as
a TC 250/310.

 

[Mr Ford40]

IMO- If running map set 1 is within your acceptable parameters, then you should seriously consider getting a 250/310 instead.
Tinken you are very correct there.

I would like to know how do you set up the mapping or should I say can you set up the mapping between 1,2,3 to be able to switch.
for me switching between mapping is me being able to control the bike if my young bloke has a ride.

 

[Dangermouse449]

Map 1 is if you do not have the jumper plug connected under the seat & the O2 sensor installed.
Map 2 is the second map loaded in whichever map set has been uploaded into the ecu.
When map set 3 is installed, it still has a msp1 & 2. Just the software has been renewed in the ecu.
So plug out, low power/emissions map, plug installed, power map (shows as race map II on dash)

 

[huskylove]

Tinken,

The power commander accelerator pump function is working exceptionally well to make the butterfly removal and open air filter come together. I am still trying to find the best settings...

 

[Dangermouse449]

Husky love,
I like the idea of that setting rather than just making the lower maps richer.
It is more what I'm used to with aftermarket auto ecus.
Good on you for chasing it through

 

[Dangermouse449]

I figured it out. The TC tbi went from disappointing to frightening. Ty says the new powerband is a bit much, but I have to redesign my Akro exhaust for upper rpms.

So, should be good also for modified bike with TE body & no butterfly. Good to hear.

 

[Mr Ford40]

Cheers Thanks again.

 

[Thrasher]

The TC tbi went from disappointing to frightening. Ty says the new powerband is a bit much, but I have to redesign my Akro exhaust for upper rpms.

I want MY bike to be frightening... and some professional racer to think my powerband is a bit much.

 

[Thrasher]

Haha.. The accelerator pump feature on the pcv is a fast feature, but it is either on or off and is abrupt. It is much better to populate the lower portion of the map in order to get a smooth transition. I just need to sit down and do that.

If and when you're able to share some settings, that would be great. Keeping in mind that most of us with PCVs only have airbox and exhaust mods.

 

[Motosportz]

Well, there are different levels of acceptable engine performance. What may seem right to one person will not be to another.

The ZipTy Racing team/Dynojet team attempted this mod 4 years ago, and even with their powercommanders, they could not get the TE throttle body to run within their acceptable parameters.

As far as the TC mod I am working on, the pc5 is required. I have made advancements this past week that has pushed my engine to frightening levels of performance. Ty took it out yesterday for testing and was impressed, though my Akropovic silencer needs some modification for high rpm.

IMO- If running map set 1 is within your acceptable parameters, then you should seriously consider getting a 250/310 instead.

Well I guess I don't know what acceptable performance is because after another ride today my bike is running better than ever. I have no idea how you guys could not getting it running right when 20 plus of us seem to like it. I don't operate at national level so I don't need the national level performance you speak of so FOR ME, on MY BIKE, it works well and is a noticeable improvement no matter how many times you tell me it does not work. I'll just remain happy as a clam to wallow around in my bottom feeder level of acceptance not knowing any better. Works for me.

 

[danny318]

I'm curious about the accelerator pump feature, but my first thought is that with EFI its not necessary. I thought in a carburetor it basically squirts extra fuel on big throttle hits because the normal flow of fuel would not be enough for that split second. I would think the efi system is 'fast' enough to immediately inject the extra fuel on big throttle hits.
Either way though would like to see what the settings are so i can try it out

 

[Motosportz]

Not sure why you are getting so offended over my posts lately.

I'm not "so offended" but I'm am tired of it. Dont need to be told over and over that what I did will not work. Everything has been said several times over now.

Everyone does have their own opinion on what works and what doesn't. Even you added JD fueling on top of the Map3.

Yep, whats the point? I have agreed 40 times that the bike runs lean and needs more fuel and that everything I have done in that direction is positive.

Why would you do that if the mod will work with map1?

I dont even know what your asking here. Never ran map one as it was ridiculously lean. Again, I am all for more fuel, hence the power up plug, JD and map3 all well documented here for years.

IMO- If running map set 1 is within your acceptable parameters, then you should seriously consider getting a 250/310 instead.

or a TTR125.

Zero of this has anything to do with the BF mod working for me on my bike.

 

[danny318]

It might be on some engines, but on mine, without the accel running, any attempt to pull the throttle ends in a pop stall. I can pull the throttle very slowly and it will run, but that's not going work coming out of a sandy turn. I need to be able to whack that throttle wide open and have go power.

Interesting - maybe your other mods (cylinder head work etc) contribute to that (more air flow). When you get the settings worked out please post up what they are (I'm sure you will) so we can try

 

[Dangermouse449]

I'm curious about the accelerator pump feature, but my first thought is that with EFI its not necessary. I thought in a carburetor it basically squirts extra fuel on big throttle hits because the normal flow of fuel would not be enough for that split second. I would think the efi system is 'fast' enough to immediately inject the extra fuel on big throttle hits.
Either way though would like to see what the settings are so i can try it out

Almost all efi systems do an 'accelerator pump' type of reaction in some form. On older 'group fire' efi car systems you could hear the injectors pulsing away by their steady tick. If you snapped the throttle open you could hear the rapid-fire of pulses to richen up the mix (like an accelerator pump) then return to a steady tick again.
Most after market set ups have this feature so you don't have to run rich mixtures in maps that don't need them.
Some systems have multiple accel pump adjustments, percent increase, sustain, different settings for low & high rpm.