ECU Reset - Important information

[kiwiape]

Well I've had the eruption installed for about 2 months now and clocked about 2000K. Upon installing the eruption the bike had a slight improvement, nothing serious. My idol was still erratic, stalled less but still stalled on occasion, pulled slightly better once above 3500K.

Pretty sure my ECU learned what ever it does because in the last 3 weeks my idol has gone to shit jumping from 1400-1600. No matter if the bike is cold, hot or the outside temp is cold or hot I needed to give the bike approx. 1/4 throttle just to start. Otherwise it would crank over all day and not catch. On a FI bike there should be no need to give throttle to start.

I tried the ECU reset procedure multiple times and no difference. So I removed the eruption, installed the factory air temp sensor and tried the reset.

Well the bike fired right up. It actually cought before I had the starter button fully depressed. Idol is rock steady at 1550 rpm and no more stupid snow flake symbol. Pull just as hard as when I first installed the Eruption mod.

I am totally done with these cheap temp spoofers. Going to keep it stock for a while until I can afford a PCV with Auto tune or the AR-FIX which is being tested on another thread. Yes they are still a type of spoofer but the ECU shouldn't be able to learn them.

Anyone want a free Eruption come to Nova Scotia and i'll hook you up.

The eruption will always get tuned out by the ECU and O2 sensor....the O2 is there to stop excessive emissions and eruption creates these...., now if an O2 emulator was added the eruption would work

 

[drzcharlie]

I am using the AF-XIED and the Eruption mod both. Works brilliantly.

 

[DerBrizon]

I did the reset this afternoon and took a short ride. The ERUPTION is in place as well. Acceleration was smooth, Decel was still full of jerkiness and exhaust pop. It almost stalled once on deceleration. That seems to be the typical place for my engine to stall. I still believe I will purchase a PCV w/Auto-tune as soon as I have the cash.

Are you aware that the user manual specifically states that you should not use the engine for braking?

I've noticed that if I'm going down hill and engine braking, that the ECU will get very confused, thinking that the high RPM + 0% throttle means it is providing too much fuel, and subsequently cuts fuel to reduce what it thinks is the idle speed... It continues to do this until fuel is basically zero, or too low to run the engine.

 

[nev..]

Are you aware that the user manual specifically states that you should not use the engine for braking?

That advice seems very counter-intuitive and unconventional.
Would you care to post a reference to the page/paragraph in the user manual where this is written.
Here is a link to an online multilingual version of the manual
I have done a text search on the English section of the manual and could not find any such statement, however the following statements contradicting yours can be found

Page 26 of the English Owners Manual states
"Downshift in the following instances:
When going downhill and when braking to increase the braking action through engine compression; "
Page 27 of the English Owners Manual states.
"Stopping the motorcycle and the engine.
Close the throttle completely so that the engine will help slow down the motorcycle"

 

[Lekolite]

That advice seems very counter-intuitive and unconventional.
Would you care to post a reference to the page/paragraph in the user manual where this is written.
Here is a link to an online multilingual version of the manual
I have done a text search on the English section of the manual and could not find any such statement, however the following statements contradicting yours can be found

Page 26 of the English Owners Manual states
"Downshift in the following instances:
When going downhill and when braking to increase the braking action through engine compression; "
Page 27 of the English Owners Manual states.
"Stopping the motorcycle and the engine.
Close the throttle completely so that the engine will help slow down the motorcycle"

Thank you Nev! I was thinking "I always use engine compression to help brake the bike".

 

[drzcharlie]

I never heard of not using engine braking. I don't think I could do it any other way....

 

[Nordland]

That advice seems very counter-intuitive and unconventional.
Would you care to post a reference to the page/paragraph in the user manual where this is written.
Here is a link to an online multilingual version of the manual
I have done a text search on the English section of the manual and could not find any such statement, however the following statements contradicting yours can be found

Page 26 of the English Owners Manual states
"Downshift in the following instances:
When going downhill and when braking to increase the braking action through engine compression; "
Page 27 of the English Owners Manual states.
"Stopping the motorcycle and the engine.
Close the throttle completely so that the engine will help slow down the motorcycle"

Nothing found in the german manual.

Never heard of not using the engine break.

 

[Dan Keifer]

I do not understand what the warranty has to do with the idle screw.

Are you aware of the idle screw adjustment?

Has anyone tried this idle screw adjustment on a TR650???

I did the eruption mod last fall and my bike has started stalling again but not as bad as before the mod. I'd love to have this all over with.

 

[engineerk9]

​

If you can call 1600 rpm idling LOL. As long as the oil is flowing and the battery is charging and the cooling system is working, it's all good.

Anyway, that wives tale of not idling is from the old days of air cooled bikes.

It's from the days of carburettors, when idle mixtures tended to be rich & combustion temperatures low, washing the lubricating oil off cylinder walls, lower temperatures also means increased clearances etc etc

 

[drzcharlie]

Has anyone tried this idle screw adjustment on a TR650???

I did the eruption mod last fall and my bike has started stalling again but not as bad as before the mod. I'd love to have this all over with.

The Eruption Mod has been learned by the ECU, and now it has reverted to the stock map. I am beta testing the AF-XIED (google it) for the TR. I am very pleased with it to date. It is different in that it changes the sensed o2 readings and shifts them so the ECU can richen the mixture thus stopping the stalling issues. The ECU is always testing the o2 so it assumes environmental conditions warrant changing fuel mapping. Since the ECU is sampling this mixture it cannot learn the condition as it is always changing.

 

[mag00]

The Eruption Mod has been learned by the ECU, and now it has reverted to the stock map. I am beta testing the AF-XIED (google it) for the TR. I am very pleased with it to date. It is different in that it changes the sensed o2 readings and shifts them so the ECU can richen the mixture thus stopping the stalling issues. The ECU is always testing the o2 so it assumes environmental conditions warrant changing fuel mapping. Since the ECU is sampling this mixture it cannot learn the condition as it is always changing.

Charlie, the o2 spoof is great, I just wish you could talk roger into adding the second part of the circuit, the part to turn it off after RPM reach higher revs.

In the other topic on high mileage, the spark plug issue is brought up, by me. In the old days, we would look at the plug to see what is going on. Ogre posted a photo of his plug, and it it carbon black. My plug photo, it is burning pretty good.

In doing all this research, on fuel injectors, mapping, ejk, all the stuff related to the poor running, I am not convinced any longer that it is a lean condition that is the problem. Race engines are more finicky and our bike engine is right up there.

The large bore single has characteristics of its own to deal with, vs a multicylinder engine. That huge rush of air in, getting the fuel to atomize and fire etc.

Reading and researching, looking at indexing the plug, adding a larger injector and setting up the idle circuit (butterfly vs stepper motor) I believe the issue can be resolved.

I put on a single can, when I was designing that I looked into exhaust tuning. I read more on how columns of air flow and produce back pressure and vacuums in the intake and exhaust to aid the flow. Now the bike is in the air for a straight through carbon fibre/baffle. I got the Lexx to adjust it out to my liking. I am not convinced any longer that I have to have the Lexx, but I have it, and will set it up. It is a cheap fix if it works, which there is no reason not to.

But back to plugs. Unlike the old days, with basic info on how to read a plug, there is tons of it online. One racers site, the guy can tell you the ignition advance at idle and at wot just by looking at the plug. He tell of what range in lean or fat etc all from reading the plug and show pictures of what to look at.

So, looking at my plug vs Ogre, my bike is running proper, even with the lean, as the plug does not indicate a lean idle. So why the stumble? Big displacement single, not getting the perfect atomization on first pulse.

How to fix? maybe as simple as indexing or even changing the plug to a different design (none exist for the 10mm plug). Putting in a larger cc injector. Injector specialist say this will help get the fuel in fast enough to burn proper. Setting the ration of air that goes by the butterfly at idle, via the balance of the butterfly set screw and the auto adjusting stepper motor.

I may put together a topic on spark plugs, after all, without them, the bikes will not run.

Here is the link for one of the interesting plug sites. http://www.4secondsflat.com/Spark_plug_reading.html

An image search on plugs is a good tool. The spark plug can tell what's wrong or what is happening inside the engine. The often overlooked hero of the engine.

I cannot see using a method to fix one problem, then create another. The carbon fouling is a big deal. As carbon builds, it will accumulate inside the engine. This can cause hot spots. The carbon itself can get hot enough to cause pre detonation (pinging), carbon buildup is bad, and when I see carbon on plugs like the one of Ogre, I get squeamish. Then the talk on heat range, so I researched more, God I love the internet.

I am no longer convinced lean is the problem. I am beginning to think that the afxied in current config can and will do long term harm to our engines. Even the ait spoofers, in my opinion, are doing long term harm, thankfully they get adapted out.

I suspect that an improper exhaust could do harm. In years gone by, a friend of mine added aftermarket headers to his Mitsubishi and was always cracking heads from that point forward. They would crack between the valves. That is not the only instance I know of.

My stance back then was, why does a guy in his home garage think he knows more than the engineers who went to school and is paid big bucks and do it for a living daily with dynos and wind tunnels and all the proper test equipment? Well, the airbox design is one reason, for sure. But that was probably not the same guy who worked out the running characteristics and fuel/ignition mapping.

Dave

 

[drzcharlie]

Charlie, the o2 spoof is great, I just wish you could talk roger into adding the second part of the circuit, the part to turn it off after RPM reach higher revs.

Dave I know you had a conversation about this with Roger. What was his response when you asked him?

 

[Clete]

Good read mag00

 

[Baddrapp]

The only correct way to read a plug is with a new plug and after a wot run with the engine shut down while at wot throttle. No idling or driving back home.

 

[mag00]

Dave I know you had a conversation about this with Roger. What was his response when you asked him?

I do try to be nice Dr Z. Really I do.

 

[mag00]

The only correct way to read a plug is with a new plug and after a wot run with the engine shut down while at wot throttle. No idling or driving back home.

I think when they mentioned that, they were talking about the racer who wanted to know how his wot pass was. The guy shut down at the end of the pass, etc etc.

But to read a plug for us regular guys, you look at the deposits, where they are, color etc etc. how they build over time. This will tell the engine and other related system health. If rings are worn, the plug will foul one way, if it is drinking coolant, it will foul another way. I pouring gas, yet another. The article goes on to say the guy can read alot more than what I typically looked at in a plug. Idle rich or lean, midrange rich or lean timing at idle and wot etc. Seems to be a fairly exacting science.

The topic of plugs probably should get it's own recognition. I haven't been able to come up with a good first paragraph for the topic.

I don't remember this ever being discussed before.

 

[spiderman]

I like the way this discussion is headed. It's time for a new approach to the problem. I was talking to a buddy of mine about this and he immediately asked about the plugs. Mr Mag00 makes a good point about the plugs not looking like they're coming out of a lean running engine. Sure hope this goes somewhere.

 

[Baddrapp]

Here are two photos of my outer plug. It is not running rich. I am running the wukka. I would like to see it a little darker. It is running too lean.

 

[mag00]

This is what I have. Plug on the right is from the center. The open side on top was facing the intake. I did not mark the outboard before pulling. Around 3k miles, 91 chevron, no spoofer, pod mod, and single can.

 

[Baddrapp]

The manual indicates the plugs to be changed at 20000 kilometers. The center plug looks like it opened up a lot. I wonder if an iridium plug would be better. I think they are dreaming to get 20000 km out of these plugs.