What is your Spoofer Plug experience?

[engineerk9]

I guess I'm a little biased to actually installing performance items that work. I don't mean to Ruffle any feathers.

I've owned my own Dynojet dyno/CNC machine shop for the past 18 years now. Google Vforcejohn. You'll see I'm all over the world and I'm the #1 Kawasaki and BRP (canam) EFI tuners in the USA. I also do a lot of Custom CNC lathe, mill, EDM machining.

When customers come in looking for a tune or more performance from a machine. Imagine me plugging in a "spoofer" and making a few runs with it vs actualy tuning a VE table to a target air fuel ratio. You folks aren't the only ones to think of these OR see these on Ebay. I've tried these MANY times for a quick fix......


So with these Spoofers. How are you overcoming the RICH condition happening from 7000 on up? I'm removing -22 to -30 from the VE table? Spoofer isn't doing this.

How are you overcoming the EXTREME lean condition that happens at 1750-2500 rpm at 2-20% throttle? You need to add 12-25% fuel in these areas? Spoofer isn't doing that.

How are you overcoming the Lack of Fuel accelerator pump enhancments? Spoofer can't do this?

How are you going to hit your target air fuel ratio? Spoofer can't accurately hit a richer target afr without being driven until it "maps" the ecu from the spoof...If it worked...and then you're still going off the stock VE table, just an altered version of it.

How long is it going to take for that spoofer to work?? PC5 is instant? So the time spent installing the PC5 is the total time for success. Tuning in a Spoofer takes MILES..If it happens at all.

Sure the PCV is more expensive and takes 30 mins to install. You get what you pay for.

I've modified these 650cc Rotax motors in the DS650X for over 10 years now with everything from 650cc to 895cc making 200+ hp with a turbo and NOS. Tuning a 50 rwhp machine is a piece of cake. I Intend to make this a Mild 730cc with some cams and a CNC head port. I should be able to extract 75-80 rwhp pretty easily.


As for cracking the code on the ECU. Contact Pisiani, they are in Italy or Vtech.se in Sweden. I use them for EFI reflashing on Kawy and Canam machines for both the Mitsu/Denso ecu's, Seimens, and Bosch.

IF anyone is ever in North East PA and has their Husky, Stop by my shop and I'll let you ride mine (weather permitting). You won't ride out of here with your stock machine I guarantee!!

John

So John, how do we share your expertise here in Australia ?

 

[engineerk9]

The air temperature sensor does run a few degrees hotter than ambient air. I believe the sensor is located in the left side of the air box near the throttle body. As the bike gets hotter the sensor stays a little warmer due to this. This is just my observation.

An "interesting" observation, today riding in Sydney traffic, 30degC day, with the Booster Plug located in the airbox, the engine heat tricks the ECU in the "wrong" direction
I'm about to move mine well out of the airbox

 

[Roger 04 RT]

You want the boosterplug in the airbox. Otherwise it is measuring the wrong temperature air. The probe should always measure the temperature of air being combusted.

 

[engineerk9]

A few degrees ??
I have just run some tests and IMHO the position of the AIT is yet another design fault of this bike.

Ambient Air Temp reading before starting the bike = 30.5C
Air Temp reading with engine running, steadily climbs to 40.0C
Air temp when the Cooling Fan cuts in rises to 45.0C

The sensor is in the airbox, but it's external fittings are in direct flow of the hot air from the fan and thus it reads, in my case 14.5 degrees C too high.
This IMHO is one of the real causes of the Lean Stumble and cr*p hot running of my engine.
Air entering is up to 15 degrees C lower than actual, but the ECU thinks the air is 45C and leans out the engine accordingly. The O2 sensor feedback will eventually tell the ECU different and then it will hopefully trim back accordingly, but this takes time and that is the stage when I get the worst stumbles.

Next idea - Move the AIT so it is in natural airflow and reads somewhere near the truth and then see how the dog runs then.

This is the very reason l moved my Booster Plug temperature sensor as far forward as possible. As l found out that slow moving in traffic or stopped, the engine heat was leaning out the fuel/air mix & the bike would stall. With the Pod filter mod there is virtually no air flowing across the air temperature sensor. ideally, the air temperature sensor could be mounted where the air filter used to be, completely in the air flow

 

[PaulC]

This is the very reason l moved my Booster Plug temperature sensor as far forward as possible. As l found out that slow moving in traffic or stopped, the engine heat was leaning out the fuel/air mix & the bike would stall. With the Pod filter mod there is virtually no air flowing across the air temperature sensor. ideally, the air temperature sensor could be mounted where the air filter used to be, completely in the air flow

K9, if you go to this thread, you'll see quite a few options for locating the sensor http://www.cafehusky.com/threads/booster-plug.29060/
also if you go here http://www.cafehusky.com/threads/st...-husky-650-intermittent-stopping.41191/page-4 I have done the same as post 61. Mega has been there, Thanks Megatiker, Buon lavoro

 

[engineerk9]

K9, if you go to this thread, you'll see quite a few options for locating the sensor http://www.cafehusky.com/threads/booster-plug.29060/
also if you go here http://www.cafehusky.com/threads/st...-husky-650-intermittent-stopping.41191/page-4 I have done the same as post 61. Mega has been there, Thanks Megatiker, Buon lavoro

One of the criteria that has changed dramatically, is the airflow in the airbox with the conversion to Pod-mod
There is virtually no airflow between the Pod & the throttle body, the Air Temp Sensor is covered by the Unifilter, & can only measure the heat directly above the engine
My intention is to move this sensor to a location where it can measure the actual air temperature
My Booster Plug sensor is already mounted in the right-hand air-box adjacent to the air inlet
See above

 

[Roger 04 RT]

One of the criteria that has changed dramatically, is the airflow in the airbox with the conversion to Pod-mod
There is virtually no airflow between the Pod & the throttle body, the Air Temp Sensor is covered by the Unifilter, & can only measure the heat directly above the engine
My intention is to move this sensor to a location where it can measure the actual air temperature
My Booster Plug sensor is already mounted in the right-hand air-box adjacent to the air inlet
See above

Seems like a good idea.

 

[engineerk9]

Seems like a good idea.

I attached a remote reading thermometer into the airbox, adjacent to the air temperature sensor, when stationary, as in traffic when the fan cuts-in the temperature at the sensor was 53degC, no wonder the engine stalls the ecu sees 53 minus the Booster plug 20degC, the ecu sees 33degC & fuels for that, ie too lean
I think that what actually happens because the throttle has not turned (the Booster Plug only cuts-in when the throttle moves) the ecu initially sees 53degC, the moment the throttle moves the ecu sees the Booster Plug adjusted temp, ie 33degC

Prior to the Pod-mod, the airflow in the air box would have removed the engine heat continuously, it would appear that there is virtually no airflow over the sensor, which is behind the Unifilter

I now understand that the air temp sensor must be moved away from engine heat

I'll post a photo of my Booster Plug sensor

 

[hasenpfeffer]

no wonder the engine stalls the ecu sees 53 minus the Booster plug 20degC, the ecu sees 33degC & fuels for that, ie too lean

Note that a colder temperature is supposed to cause the ECU to ADD fuel. Colder air = denser air, which requires more fuel. So the ecu should be richening the mixture, not leaning it. That's the theory, anyway.

 

[engineerk9]

Note that a colder temperature is supposed to cause the ECU to ADD fuel. Colder air = denser air, which requires more fuel. So the ecu should be richening the mixture, not leaning it. That's the theory, anyway.

Cooler air is denser yes, however if the ECU is seeing air that's more than 33degC above ambient it is fuelling for that temperature, which is very lean
In theory the Booster Plug brings ambient air temperature down by 20degC
Air temperature in the airbox is not ambient, as it's effected by engine heat, especially when stopped in traffic, travelling slowly or the radiator fan is running

 

[engineerk9]

 

[engineerk9]

See Booster Plug sensor

 

[Mark_H]

Note that a colder temperature is supposed to cause the ECU to ADD fuel. Colder air = denser air, which requires more fuel. So the ecu should be richening the mixture, not leaning it. That's the theory, anyway.

Correct ! This is the basis of all AIT spoofers and the theory on which I decided to build myself the...

Coolest $1 AIT Spoofer yet.

DO NOT READ THIS if you already spent $$$ on an AIT Spoofer and you are happy with it.

Whichever AIT Spoofer you buy, basically they all follow the same concept in adjustment of the Sensor reading to fool the ECU into thinking the air is cooler than it is and adjusting the AFR mixture accordingly to make the engine run richer = smoother and cooler.
All of the ECU adjustments are kept in check by the feedback from the O2 Lambda sensor and, according to some, the ECU is eventually able to learn from the Lambda and adapt back to the lean settings it was originally at.
This 'learn' process seems to occur over different mileages and then only for some spoofer users as indicated by the poll in this forum.

Based upon the information given in the original "Eruption" thread and others here I understand the AIT sensor to be a simple Thermistor with a nominal resistance of 5K Ohms at 25C and other AIT Spoofers whatever the cost, alter this resistance to give the ECU cooler readings and create the extra fuel effect.

So the deal is "Resistance" - Now I also know that you do not need to spend $100 to alter resistances and here is the proof.....

How about a simple controllable spoofer, one that can be adjusted for any situation whether it be running in colder cooler air or, as I am, in hot humid city traffic and also open mountain roads.

Knowing the original AIT sensor to be a thermistor of base resistance 5K ohm and the "Eruption" to be several thermistors to create a base resistance of 12.5K ohms I set about making something that will operate through this range and beyond to give me more control.
My average ambient temperature is 30C and I need to get the input to the ECU down at least 20C or more to give me the rich running I want.

Tests showed that if I simply replaced the AIT sensor with a 5K ohm resistor I got a dash reading of 24.5C and the bike ran pretty well, but of course there was no allowance or control for actual changes in ambient air temperature.

Similarly fitting a small Variable Resistor in place of the AIT sensor I got the ability to adjust the dash reading and the bike ran very well, but still there was no input or way to measure actual air temperature as a baseline.

Also the original AIT sensor has been shown to be non-linear in the way it operates through the temperature ranges and I was keen to replicate this.

My final idea involves fitting this little bit of kit purchased from my local Electronics Store for a total of 43 pesos = $1



Parts are - 1m of low impedance speaker wire, 1 x 20K ohm Variable Resistor (with knob) and 1 x Connector block.

Fitting is simple so long as you are capable of soldering 2 small wires and the whole process can be reversed back to standard in a few minutes if that is ever necessary.

The stock AIT Sensor remains in its original position within the airbox and operates in its normal non-linear fashion.

Stage 1

Remove left hand plastics and locate the AIT sensor connector and unplug it.
Pull the connector out from above the engine - there is not so much wire to work with but just enough so do not pull too hard.



Peel back the tape and select one of the wires to cut.

Cut only one wire and solder tin the bare ends. (All wire connections must be solder tinned as we are dealing with small resistances here)
Then connect the wires into the connector block as shown...



Next connect the 1m of speaker wire to the other side of the connector block and secure the wires with a small zip-tie.
Wrap the connector and sensor wires back up in tape - the self annealing sort works very well.

Stage 2.

Refit the AIT sensor connector back onto the sensor and prepare to test the circuit as follows....

With the free ends of the speaker wires apart switch on the ignition and observe the dash temperature reading to be (.....T) and Engine Warning light on.
Switch off the ignition then join the ends of the two speaker wires together to create the circuit.
Switch ignition back on and observe the dash temperature reading to be normal ie direct from AIT sensor with no Engine Warning light.
This proves the new wiring to be correct so switch off ignition and proceed....

Stage 3.

Choose a suitable position to fit the Variable Resistor so you can adjust it.
A 'suitable position' is anywhere you want but try to remain in the left side of the bike and avoid going up over the bars to the headlight as movements may cause wire abrasion or connector issues in the future.
I chose to put mine in the plastics just above the coolant expansion tank cap, all the electrical connections are protected inside the plastics and I can easily each the knob with my left hand while driving.

Cut speaker wires to length and connect the 20K ohm Variable Resistor to the ends, then perform a last test.
With the VR backed off to zero, Switch on the ignition and observe the dash temperature reading as being normal.
Slowly turn the VR and observe the dash temperature reading to change downwards = all is good so switch off and secure wires with a small zip tie and wrap the whole VR in tape to protect it.



Stage 4.

Replace the plastics and with the VR backed off to zero make sure the dash temperature reads normal or ambient as it previously did.
Note the temperature and then turn the VR to dial in the offset that you require - I started at 10C and immediately noticed a big improvement.
I find I can dial a range of around 45-50C lower than ambient with the 20K ohm VR, some for you living in cooler places may be able to fit a 10K ohm VR and achieve what you need with a more accurate dial range.

There you have it - The Coolest Spoofer ever and it cost $1, is easily reversible and still uses the stock AIT sensor in its non-linear way.
Run it with the VR backed off to achieve good gas mileage on the open road, then when required, eg in traffic, you can dial in your offset and have a richer smoother cooler running engine whenever you need it.

Note: Try not to make too many small adjustments and give the ECU time to alter the mixture for different riding conditions.

Cheers, MH

 

[Johnn]

Note that a colder temperature is supposed to cause the ECU to ADD fuel. Colder air = denser air, which requires more fuel. So the ecu should be richening the mixture, not leaning it. That's the theory, anyway.

We do not know what the ECU is doing, but, having an accurate/consistant measurement of air temperature can't do much harm

 

[hasenpfeffer]

Ah, I misunderstood your comments.

 

[Johnn]

I have a suspicion that the Booster Plug works because the second sensor is further up the air filter away from the exhaust and radiator fan. Wukka King recommends the additional sensor be mounted in the side cover near the front of the bike. Where the sensor is mounted can (maybe) make all the difference.
There are other factors such as if the bike is used for commuting with a fair amount of heat coming off the engine ans exhaust or touring where the air moves away the heat way from the bike. I use my left leg as an indicator of how hot it is around the IAT.
I have no training or knowledge on how the ECU interprets the data from the IAT or what it does with it.
What I do know is the engine stumbles at light throttle closing and opening (20kmh - 50kmh traffic ) and an absolute delight when ridden with a bit of verve. (ie cool leg)

 

[engineerk9]

We do not know what the ECU is doing, but, having an accurate/consistant measurement of air temperature can't do much harm

Hi John, some of us have a vague idea of what the ecu does, many of the previous posts have not either taken account of the Pod-mod or the bikes in question still have the original air-filter air box arrangement
One of the most significant changes the Pod-mod does, beside keeping the air into the motor cleaner is that it has changed the airflow characteristics within the airbox - I believe sufficiently so as to effect the "air temp" as measured by the air temp sensor (ATS) in certain conditions
My aim with my TR is to give the ecu the most accurate & consistent ambient air temperature
I'll post results as I progress

 

[engineerk9]

A few degrees ??
I have just run some tests and IMHO the position of the AIT is yet another design fault of this bike.

Ambient Air Temp reading before starting the bike = 30.5C
Air Temp reading with engine running, steadily climbs to 40.0C
Air temp when the Cooling Fan cuts in rises to 45.0C

The sensor is in the airbox, but it's external fittings are in direct flow of the hot air from the fan and thus it reads, in my case 14.5 degrees C too high.
This IMHO is one of the real causes of the Lean Stumble and cr*p hot running of my engine.
Air entering is up to 15 degrees C lower than actual, but the ECU thinks the air is 45C and leans out the engine accordingly. The O2 sensor feedback will eventually tell the ECU different and then it will hopefully trim back accordingly, but this takes time and that is the stage when I get the worst stumbles.

Next idea - Move the AIT so it is in natural airflow and reads somewhere near the truth and then see how the dog runs then.

This is what I'm doing today, moving the AIT out of the air-box, to a location forward of the Radiators
The Pod-mod reduced the airflow across the AIT, therefore measures stationary hot air - my remote reading thermometer was showing 53degC at the AIT when stopped in traffic - the Booster plug reduced this by 20degC, the ecu still saw 33degC & fueled accordingly, given that ambient temperature was 22degC injection would have been very lean, hence the stumbles

 

[engineerk9]

I moved the AIT from the airbox above the motor, to where the original air filter was
The Booster Plug sensor is in the right-hand "beak" I re-set the ecu, as per these posts
Test ride appeared to give me better response, the dash temperature varied between 0.5degC & 3.5degC The motor pulls cleanly from just above 2,000rpm
The Booster takes 20degC off - ambient temperature today was 20-23degC
The Dash "ice-warning" flashing, indicating that the Booster Plug is doing it's job
I'll arrange Dyno asap this week

 

[engineerk9]

$1

Correct ! This is the basis of all AIT spoofers and the theory on which I decided to build myself the...

Coolest $1 AIT Spoofer yet.

DO NOT READ THIS if you already spent $$$ on an AIT Spoofer and you are happy with it.

Whichever AIT Spoofer you buy, basically they all follow the same concept in adjustment of the Sensor reading to fool the ECU into thinking the air is cooler than it is and adjusting the AFR mixture accordingly to make the engine run richer = smoother and cooler.
All of the ECU adjustments are kept in check by the feedback from the O2 Lambda sensor and, according to some, the ECU is eventually able to learn from the Lambda and adapt back to the lean settings it was originally at.
This 'learn' process seems to occur over different mileages and then only for some spoofer users as indicated by the poll in this forum.

Based upon the information given in the original "Eruption" thread and others here I understand the AIT sensor to be a simple Thermistor with a nominal resistance of 5K Ohms at 25C and other AIT Spoofers whatever the cost, alter this resistance to give the ECU cooler readings and create the extra fuel effect.

So the deal is "Resistance" - Now I also know that you do not need to spend $100 to alter resistances and here is the proof.....

How about a simple controllable spoofer, one that can be adjusted for any situation whether it be running in colder cooler air or, as I am, in hot humid city traffic and also open mountain roads.

Knowing the original AIT sensor to be a thermistor of base resistance 5K ohm and the "Eruption" to be several thermistors to create a base resistance of 12.5K ohms I set about making something that will operate through this range and beyond to give me more control.
My average ambient temperature is 30C and I need to get the input to the ECU down at least 20C or more to give me the rich running I want.

Tests showed that if I simply replaced the AIT sensor with a 5K ohm resistor I got a dash reading of 24.5C and the bike ran pretty well, but of course there was no allowance or control for actual changes in ambient air temperature.

Similarly fitting a small Variable Resistor in place of the AIT sensor I got the ability to adjust the dash reading and the bike ran very well, but still there was no input or way to measure actual air temperature as a baseline.

Also the original AIT sensor has been shown to be non-linear in the way it operates through the temperature ranges and I was keen to replicate this.

My final idea involves fitting this little bit of kit purchased from my local Electronics Store for a total of 43 pesos = $1

View attachment 51683

Parts are - 1m of low impedance speaker wire, 1 x 20K ohm Variable Resistor (with knob) and 1 x Connector block.

Fitting is simple so long as you are capable of soldering 2 small wires and the whole process can be reversed back to standard in a few minutes if that is ever necessary.

The stock AIT Sensor remains in its original position within the airbox and operates in its normal non-linear fashion.

Stage 1

Remove left hand plastics and locate the AIT sensor connector and unplug it.
Pull the connector out from above the engine - there is not so much wire to work with but just enough so do not pull too hard.

View attachment 51684

Peel back the tape and select one of the wires to cut.

Cut only one wire and solder tin the bare ends. (All wire connections must be solder tinned as we are dealing with small resistances here)
Then connect the wires into the connector block as shown...

View attachment 51685

Next connect the 1m of speaker wire to the other side of the connector block and secure the wires with a small zip-tie.
Wrap the connector and sensor wires back up in tape - the self annealing sort works very well.

Stage 2.

Refit the AIT sensor connector back onto the sensor and prepare to test the circuit as follows....

With the free ends of the speaker wires apart switch on the ignition and observe the dash temperature reading to be (.....T) and Engine Warning light on.
Switch off the ignition then join the ends of the two speaker wires together to create the circuit.
Switch ignition back on and observe the dash temperature reading to be normal ie direct from AIT sensor with no Engine Warning light.
This proves the new wiring to be correct so switch off ignition and proceed....

Stage 3.

Choose a suitable position to fit the Variable Resistor so you can adjust it.
A 'suitable position' is anywhere you want but try to remain in the left side of the bike and avoid going up over the bars to the headlight as movements may cause wire abrasion or connector issues in the future.
I chose to put mine in the plastics just above the coolant expansion tank cap, all the electrical connections are protected inside the plastics and I can easily each the knob with my left hand while driving.

Cut speaker wires to length and connect the 20K ohm Variable Resistor to the ends, then perform a last test.
With the VR backed off to zero, Switch on the ignition and observe the dash temperature reading as being normal.
Slowly turn the VR and observe the dash temperature reading to change downwards = all is good so switch off and secure wires with a small zip tie and wrap the whole VR in tape to protect it.

View attachment 51687

Stage 4.

Replace the plastics and with the VR backed off to zero make sure the dash temperature reads normal or ambient as it previously did.
Note the temperature and then turn the VR to dial in the offset that you require - I started at 10C and immediately noticed a big improvement.
I find I can dial a range of around 45-50C lower than ambient with the 20K ohm VR, some for you living in cooler places may be able to fit a 10K ohm VR and achieve what you need with a more accurate dial range.

There you have it - The Coolest Spoofer ever and it cost $1, is easily reversible and still uses the stock AIT sensor in its non-linear way.
Run it with the VR backed off to achieve good gas mileage on the open road, then when required, eg in traffic, you can dial in your offset and have a richer smoother cooler running engine whenever you need it.

Note: Try not to make too many small adjustments and give the ECU time to alter the mixture for different riding conditions.

Cheers, MH

$1.95 Jaycar Electrics, l'm thinking Booster Plug ait, as l've already repositioned both ecu ait & Booster Plug ait well away from engine heat
Fun experimenting
The Booster Plug still allows the ecu to revert too default