What is your Spoofer Plug experience?

[Jon Knutson]

I've given up on my Wuka King (my bike runs the same as it did before I got it). Just ordered a AF-XIED, will report my results once it arrives.

 

[engineerk9]

I've given up on my Wuka King (my bike runs the same as it did before I got it). Just ordered a AF-XIED, will report my results once it arrives.

Yesterday I moved both ecu AIT & Booster Plug AIT so that they are forward of engine & radiator heat, the test run was an improvement
I've yet to Dyno, as that will give me a datum
In the meantime I purchased a variable resistor, & might experiment as per the earlier post
There are a number of "spoofers" on the market, all claiming to be "the best"
I'm more than happy with my Booster Plug, the stumbling & spluttering came with the Pod-mod, Sydney summer temperatures & holiday traffic, both effecting air box AIT temperatures. Also I'd followed the "Big Dog" location of the Booster Plug AIT in the air box
I'm looking at a decent ride over the weekend 500klms, monitoring how everything performs

 

[Jon Knutson]

The only change I made to my bike engine wise is installing a Uni filter, I've had problems with stumbling and stalling since it was new. I might've had a slight improvement when I first installed the Wuka King (exactly as per instructions, drilling the hole in the front fairing), but it is now just as bad as it always was. I want to try the AF-XIED because I've heard only good reviews on it so far and it actually changes the signal coming from the O2 sensor and I don't think the bike will "learn" it like an AIT sensor.

 

[Roger 04 RT]

The only change I made to my bike engine wise is installing a Uni filter I've had problems with that stumbling installing since it was new. I might've had a slight improvement when I first installed the Wuka King (exactly as per instructions, drilling the hole in the front fairing), but it is just as bad as it always was. I want to try the AF-XIED because I've heard only good reviews on it so far and it actually changes the signal coming from the O2 sensor and I don't think the bike will "learn" it like an AIT sensor.

We'll be interested to hear your report. Here are a couple of other riders who recently reported their results. See comments by vstrom and delewis starting here: http://www.advrider.com/forums/showthread.php?p=26071416#post26071416.

The reason that O2 sensor shifting isn't "learned out" is that the O2 sensor is the reference that all other sensors are measured against. It's reason for being part of the EFI system is so that the ecu can tune everything so that cruise fueling is at 14.7:1. When you install a richer O2 reference point the ecu assumes it is correct and moves cruise fueling. After that, through long term trims, the rest of the fueling is brought richer too.

 

[Mark_H]

$1

$1.95 Jaycar Electrics, l'm thinking Booster Plug ait, as l've already repositioned both ecu ait & Booster Plug ait well away from engine heat
Fun experimenting
The Booster Plug still allows the ecu to revert too default

Mine cost me $1 for the parts locally here in Philippines - Obviously it will be different elsewhere, but it is still the cheapest and most variable method of having a spoofer.
This set up also allows the ECU to revert to default simply by dialling out the Variable Resistance and giving a direct signal from AIT sensor to ECU.

 

[engineerk9]

 

[engineerk9]

My Dyno results this morning, note the motor stumbling at 2,000rpm, which generally is the stall in slow moving traffic & the extreme lean at 4,300rpm with detonation
Any comments?

 

[engineerk9]

My Booster Plug has given me more than 15,000 klms reliable service, no complaints from me, also have Pod airfilter (4,000 klms ago) & GPR (11,000 klms ago) exhaust

I was more thank happy with Booster Plug & Pod-mod until riding in very hot weather & Sydney traffic
Following some of the posts it appeared that location of the AITs might be influencing the fuelling
I therefore re-located both AITs
Dyno check for results
See attached, the lean at 2,000 rpm virtually guarantees that the motor will stall in traffic !!
The extreme lean at 4,300 rpm ie Highway speed 110kph, is where detonation occurs
The Booster Plug is working too well between 2,300 & 4,000 rpm, hence the low torque
The ecu map is causing rich above 6,000 rpm
Any comments, suggestions?

 

[engineerk9]

My Dyno results this morning, note the motor stumbling at 2,000rpm, which generally is the stall in slow moving traffic & the extreme lean at 4,300rpm with detonation
Any comments?

Too rich at 3,000 & 7,000 rpm ??

 

[DeLewis]

I had all the symptoms you describe including the detonation at highway speed at high revs. I recently swapped from a booster plug to an AF-XIED and haven't looked back. Goes like a hairy goat, engine much smoother and runs much cooler. I was driving today through traffic, stopping frequently with temps around 35C and the engine never got further than one bar above halfway. Normally it would be up near the max with the fan regularly switching on under these conditions.

Interesting that the map shows so much variability. I wonder how it compares to other similar bikes...

 

[engineerk9]

I had all the symptoms you describe including the detonation at highway speed at high revs. I recently swapped from a booster plug to an AF-XIED and haven't looked back. Goes like a hairy goat, engine much smoother and runs much cooler. I was driving today through traffic, stopping frequently with temps around 35C and the engine never got further than one bar above halfway. Normally it would be up near the max with the fan regularly switching on under these conditions.

Interesting that the map shows so much variability. I wonder how it compares to other similar bikes...

I removed the Booster Plug this evening, the frequent stall at 2,000rpm could be dangerous
I tried the Booster Plug AIT directly on the ecu, the motor coughed & spluttered - is 20 ohms
As in a previous post, I inserted a variable resistor into the ecu AIT wire, at 4 ohms the engine runs smooth & pulls, although stalls, on closing the throttle
It has been suggested to check the idle setting & re-set the ecr - tomorrow's task
I ordered a AF-XIED a few days ago
The TR has an Marelli ECU, the BMW's have a Bosch, be interesting to know the different signals

 

[Roger 04 RT]

View attachment 51839

I wouldn't rely on the AFR readings from an inertial dyno run. Almost every time, they start out very lean due to incorrect initial conditions. Unless there is a load on the rear wheel of the motorcycle, the ECU can see a deceleration, which leads it to reduce fueling. The entire dyno pull is only a couple seconds long and the throttle is Wide Open so you only check a few of the 256 or so cells of the fuel table.

 

[Roger 04 RT]

I removed the Booster Plug this evening, the frequent stall at 2,000rpm could be dangerous
I tried the Booster Plug AIT directly on the ecu, the motor coughed & spluttered - is 20 ohms
As in a previous post, I inserted a variable resistor into the ecu AIT wire, at 4 ohms the engine runs smooth & pulls, although stalls, on closing the throttle
It has been suggested to check the idle setting & re-set the ecr - tomorrow's task
I ordered a AF-XIED a few days ago
The TR has an Marelli ECU, the BMW's have a Bosch, be interesting to know the different signals

Here are the important signals that your ECU will monitor:
--Engine rotation speed (and possible camshaft rotation speed)
--Throttle position sensor (this and engine speed are the two most important)

--Battery voltage (fuel injectors are voltage sensitive to on/off time, important during starting when voltages drop or if your alternator fails)
--Oil Temp sensor (cold engines need more fuel to start)

--Barometric pressure (possibly your ECU doesn't have this)
--Air temperature sensor (helps to minimize the size of short term fuel trims and improves cold starting)
--Fuel pressure sensor (possibly you have this, not sure. injectors deliver more fuel based on the square root of fuel pressure change so a 21% increase in pressure makes a 10% increase in fuel delivery)

 

[hasenpfeffer]

--Barometric pressure (possibly your ECU doesn't have this)

The TR does have a barometric sensor built into the underside of the ECU.

 

[hasenpfeffer]

I removed the Booster Plug this evening, the frequent stall at 2,000rpm could be dangerous
I tried the Booster Plug AIT directly on the ecu, the motor coughed & spluttered - is 20 ohms
As in a previous post, I inserted a variable resistor into the ecu AIT wire, at 4 ohms the engine runs smooth & pulls, although stalls, on closing the throttle
It has been suggested to check the idle setting & re-set the ecr - tomorrow's task
I ordered a AF-XIED a few days ago
The TR has an Marelli ECU, the BMW's have a Bosch, be interesting to know the different signals

Also check and clean the idle air mechanism.

Also note that there are some new BMW bike models using the same Marelli ECU.

 

[engineerk9]

Also check and clean the idle air mechanism.

Also note that there are some new BMW bike models using the same Marelli ECU.

I tested my TR this morning with a 4 ohm resistor in series with the ECU Ait, ran really well, minute surge-ing between 2,500 - 3,500 rpm on constant thottle, otherwise good
I'll Dyno on Monday, see where we're at

 

[engineerk9]

I wouldn't rely on the AFR readings from an inertial dyno run. Almost every time, they start out very lean due to incorrect initial conditions. Unless there is a load on the rear wheel of the motorcycle, the ECU can see a deceleration, which leads it to reduce fueling. The entire dyno pull is only a couple seconds long and the throttle is Wide Open so you only check a few of the 256 or so cells of the fuel table.

Hi Roger, agreed that Dyno runs are only approximate, however we ran a number of Dyno tests to eliminate as many errors as possible, this is only one series

I thought it of interest as it clearly indicates when the ECU is "open-loop" & "closed-loop" & how it tries to adjust, plus the Booster Plug influence

The richness around 7,000rpm has been mentioned by others in previous posts

The horsepower can only be measured when there's a load on the drum

Been an "interesting" time, the Pod-mod seems to have brought with it other challenges

Oh what fun ??

 

[Roger 04 RT]

My Dyno results this morning, note the motor stumbling at 2,000rpm, which generally is the stall in slow moving traffic & the extreme lean at 4,300rpm with detonation

Any comments?

It doesn't look like it is stumbling at 2,000 to me. I believe that high AFR is due to Dyno initial conditions only. Please see the posts here: How to Interpret Dyno Results

Hi Roger, agreed that Dyno runs are only approximate, however we ran a number of Dyno tests to eliminate as many errors as possible, this is only one series

I thought it of interest as it clearly indicates when the ECU is "open-loop" & "closed-loop" & how it tries to adjust, plus the Booster Plug influence

The richness around 7,000rpm has been mentioned by others in previous posts

The horsepower can only be measured when there's a load on the drum

Been an "interesting" time, the Pod-mod seems to have brought with it other challenges

Oh what fun ??

I don't see any signs of when your ECU is Open or Closed Loop. Where are you seeing that?

When you change any condition of the IAT, you need to ride for several tanks of gas before you test on the Dyno. This gives the ECU enough time to adapt, and create its final long term and short term trims.

Also, the AFR shown, at 7,000 RPM is 12.5:1 this is a usual Wide Open Throttle, 7,000 RPM result--not too rich. This is what I would expect the bike to be in stock condition. At WOT, 7,000 your bike should be making 100% Horsepower. That means it should be at Best Power Mixture or a little richer. The extra fuel protects the engine.

On an intertial Dyno it measures horsepower by calculating torque from the rate of acceleration of the drum, using the known weight and rotational inertia of the drum. Horsepower is calculated by then multiplying the torque X RPM / 5252.

The need for a small "static" load at 2,000 RPM is so that you don't get the false lean signal you're seeing.

Lastly, I'm not saying the results of inertial dyno testing are approximate. I'm saying as far as AFR goes they are often wrong at low RPMs due to the reasons in the link above. I don't know why but I believe the the 15:1 you're seeing at 4,300 RPM is not the result of fueling but of something else. To know for sure you should get your bike on the road with a Wideband O2 ahead of the CAT.

 

[engineerk9]

It doesn't look like it is stumbling at 2,000 to me. I believe that high AFR is due to Dyno initial conditions only. Please see the posts here: How to Interpret Dyno Results



I don't see any signs of when your ECU is Open or Closed Loop. Where are you seeing that?

When you change any condition of the IAT, you need to ride for several tanks of gas before you test on the Dyno. This gives the ECU enough time to adapt, and create its final long term and short term trims.

Also, the AFR shown, at 7,000 RPM is 12.5:1 this is a usual Wide Open Throttle, 7,000 RPM result--not too rich. This is what I would expect the bike to be in stock condition. At WOT, 7,000 your bike should be making 100% Horsepower. That means it should be at Best Power Mixture or a little richer. The extra fuel protects the engine.

On an intertial Dyno it measures horsepower by calculating torque from the rate of acceleration of the drum, using the known weight and rotational inertia of the drum. Horsepower is calculated by then multiplying the torque X RPM / 5252.

The need for a small "static" load at 2,000 RPM is so that you don't get the false lean signal you're seeing.

Lastly, I'm not saying the results of inertial dyno testing are approximate. I'm saying as far as AFR goes they are often wrong at low RPMs due to the reasons in the link above. I don't know why but I believe the the 15:1 you're seeing at 4,300 RPM is not the result of fueling but of something else. To know for sure you should get your bike on the road with a Wideband O2 ahead of the CAT.

The "stumble" at 2,000 rpm was actually a stall on the road

The "lean" at 4,300 rpm was detonation

I think that the ecu was designed so that at full power the fueling was rich to protect the motor, but also to take into account the "ram-air" effect due to road speed which would increase air flow & pressure within the airbox

I believe the 2 "spikes" is where the Booster Plug was switching-in then switching out, the ecu over-compensating

I've removed the Booster Plug

I did more dyno tests this morning, with a variable potentiometer in series with the ecu AIT, running a series of tests at various resistance settings
9.90 ohms gave the best results, still not perfect, however no excessive lean, no detonation & clean acceleration

This dropped the air temperature by 14 degC, less than the Booster Plug 20degC

A 10.80 ohm resistor is now hard-wired-in, will see how well the TR performs over the next few 1,000 klms Certainly, more pleasant to ride now

Naturally, the O2 sensor is chasing the 14.7

I'm not chasing 100%, I'm more than happy with a consistent reliable 98%, knowing that I'm not killing the motor

 

[engineerk9]

Also check and clean the idle air mechanism.

Also note that there are some new BMW bike models using the same Marelli ECU.

Is there such a thing for TR's & Spada's ?


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